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To my daughter's high school programming teacher

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Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#111

Post by PakG1 »

lmartel wrote: post #73
cookiecaper wrote: post #15

So, was this article about the student's experience or the mother's? Because it reads like it's about the mother. The guys in class suggested that their peer go make a sandwich. That's the only accusation actually made against the class and the teacher. While I don't endorse such teasing, it's certainly in no way specific to computer programming, and it's not anything like the intensity one would expect when trolls f…

I agree. While gender-related issues in the software industry are important and worth talking about, this article seems to have pretty little justification. I was in high school a few years ago. Put that many teenagers in a room and of course they're going to fuck with each other. I've heard sandwich jokes made in liberal arts classes, biology classes, even a badminton class--which also had only one girl in it. The t…

> the takeaway is that high schoolers are dicks.

High schoolers grow up. When they grow up, do they remain dicks, or do they change? I finally watched 42 the other day. There's this scene where a white dad is screaming at Robinson to get off the field, that they don't want him there, calling him all sorts of names. His son is hesitant at first, but starts following suit. The implication was clear. What you see as acceptable when young can stick with you for a long time until you have a shocking wake-up call. And seriously, who in society has really seen these wake-up calls happen more often than not? Especially given the amount of evidence we see of it not happening.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#112

Post by javert »

bangbang wrote: post #9

I cringe reading this. Since when it is alright to tell teachers how to do their job in bullet pointed letters? * Be an adult and talk about any issues, complements or concerns during the class. * Talk with them in person or on the phone. * If you wish, post to your blog after the issues have been resolved. To put a global context on the situation should be supported with evidence as it pertains to life as a women in…

> Life gets waaaay harder that this.

In my experience, life gets much better after the end of high school, because in my experience, adults don't bully adults [1]. And if you are bullied, you can generally leave.

[1] except the TSA, NSA, IRS, CIA, etc., but that's a different issue

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#113

Post by chernevik »

grandalf wrote: post #6

I think the key point is having a zero harassment policy. It should not matter if the victim/subject of the harassment appears to be tolerating it (or even enjoying the attention). Chances are he/she is just being a good sport and is socially intimidated. The worst thing about harassment culture (even when it's largely good-natured) is that it creates and reinforces a power dynamic and subtle "law of the jungle" stat…

Nah. Nothing about this course was done well. No competent teacher needs a policy to notice or stop crap like this. Here you have some time-serving cypher filling a slot to help the administration check a box. With everything else done so thoughtlessly, why would we expect them to perk up and get intraclass dynamics right?

Even if you exerted enough political pressure to suppress _this_ stuff, it would still be a bad and poorly taught class. Fix the quality of the teaching and you fix a lot more besides.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#114

Post by cnp »

waveman2 wrote: post #87
tptacek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were bullied viciously in high school, and the perverse result appears to be that you've become in adulthood a defender of bullying.

No I am saying that trivia is trivia. What happened is at worst micro-bullying. Actually I suspect the daughter did not want to do the course, was pressured into it by her mother and pickup on on this minor incident as an excuse to stop the course.

Given how common such bullying is, particularly in relation to such a male dominated field (and class), you are absolutely wrong. And having a group gang up on you is anything but "micro-bullying".

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#115

Post by mratzloff »

zenocon wrote: post #34

My favorite comment...a tad subtle: > During the first semester of my daughter's junior/senior year, she took her first programming class. She knew I'd be thrilled, but she did it anyway . Edit: before anyone harangues me, I don't mean to take away from the shitty circumstances surrounding the core message in the post, just got a chuckle out of the subtle dad/daughter humor inserted.

Mother/daughter. I also liked that.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#116

Post by Nursie »

bangbang wrote: post #48
danso wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things: 1. The OP did reach out to the teacher: > I suggested that she talk to you. I offered to talk to you. I offered to come talk to the class. I offered to send one of my male friends, perhaps a well-known local programmer, to go talk to the class. Finally, my daughter decided to plow through, finish the class, and avoid all her classmates. I hate to think what less-confident girls would have done in the same…

When this child grows up, there will be no parent to write a blog post. My point being, we all have to learn to navigate this difficult world. Stern letters from mom eventually have to stop.

When? Is it never ok to defend your kid? Or is there an age cutoff?

Because it seems to me one of the primary functions of a parent, right alongside teaching them to make it in the world.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#117

Post by javert »

nullgeo wrote: post #8

I also had a teacher in HS that taught Visual Basic in a computer programming class. Not VB.Net, but VB6, and this was 4 years ago. And they removed AP Computer Science that same year, when I was about to take it, that's why I had to settle with the class that taught VB. The state of HS education in this country makes me sad.

I went to high school from 2001 to 2005, and there wasn't any programming course. This was in the small-town US.

Any form of VB is still computer programming, and would have been a big step up.

> The state of HS education in this country makes me sad.

Yes, and that is not going to change unless we privatize education.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#118

Post by tsumnia »

Background: Currently teaching Intro to Programming using VB (not even 2012... cause our lead instructor's textbook is for 2010). I created a stir when I suggested we move to C, which we are next semester.

Many of people have already commented on this, but from my understanding, this parent did NOTHING and it going a passive-aggressive route to complain. Going into the article, I was excited to read it initially because I was going to use it in a discussion piece in the class. When I got to the end... not so much.

Does IT attract socially inept male students who resort to real-life trolling? Yes. Quite honestly, it is my opinion THIS is the reason why we have so few women in the industry. Tons of guys get interested via video games, well what happens when a female gamer 'slips up' and reveals she's not a male? Creepy PMs and sexism.

People want to dance around the issue and say its from few role models and the like; no, spend 5 minutes acting like a female online (however you'd do it), you'll see it immediately. My Steam tag is an old MacHall webcomic joke ('Susan'). If I don't have my mic on and just do basic banter in chat, yes I get the occasional guy getting too friendly.

Getting back to the article, not to defend the instructor, but they saw the female was (at one point) positively responding to the jokes. Should something have been done? Depends on the class dynamic, in my opinion. I can't accurately tell how the class ran based on this blog (as it is a biased one side to the story).

Without getting into anymore of a rant, VB isn't bad, per say... it teaches variables, loops, and conditionals, the basics of any intro class. I'd only have a problem with this if it was a high-level college course.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#119

Post by PakG1 »

waveman2 wrote: post #87
tptacek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were bullied viciously in high school, and the perverse result appears to be that you've become in adulthood a defender of bullying.

No I am saying that trivia is trivia. What happened is at worst micro-bullying. Actually I suspect the daughter did not want to do the course, was pressured into it by her mother and pickup on on this minor incident as an excuse to stop the course.

It's quite possible, many parents drive their kids up the wall to get them to achieve things or worse, want to live vicariously through their kids.

But such speculation is not valuable unless there is evidence to support it.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#120

Post by alistairSH »

coolnow wrote: post #49
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #17

trigger alert: Linux user at 11 asks for MacBook Pro at 16

Also, is it common for 16 year olds to ask for a car in the US? I asked my mum to make my favourite food, and some money so i could go out with friends. Compared to "a car" or a Macbook Pro, it sounds like i had a deprived life.

Yes, very common, at least in the wealthier regions. Many kids have a car available as soon as they can legally drive.

That said, I've noticed a trend among my son's peers. Many of them delayed driving until they left for college. Not sure why. When I was that age, everybody skipped school on their 16th birthday to go take the driving test.

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