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Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

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Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#111
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without references your comment is worthless.

No, worth can be drawn simply by applying the model I outlined above. References may add more worth if you're looking for verification (which I don't blame), but it's also a daunting task to compile such lists. Your comment on the other hand, could've just asked me for sources and that would've been productive, but instead you chose to just dismiss the entire argument cynically with a single statement; that literally…

I just don't understand how you can state bold claims like this as facts without substantiating them in any way by references or any sort of logical deduction:

If a person learned to become exceptionally 'talented' in one area, then he/she's more likely to replicate that same level success in a completely new area

The only limiting factor on skill acquisition is choice/taste.

Doesn't genetics also have some role here? The references you just included do nothing to provide any sort of evidence for those statements. To what extents cognitive skills are transferable is still much debated and science is far from having an unanimous answer. Good overview of the issue is here:

http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jlnietfe/EDP504_Notes_files/Are%20Cogn...

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#113

If we wait long enough, we will also find out that Steve Jobs invented practically everything around us - the bits, the bytes, the electricity, atoms and molecules. Hack, he was the first fish out of the water that gave raise to the man kind millions of years later. All Hail the King Jobs.

> Hack 1) I like this typo. 2) I can't imagine how you made it. Dvorak keyboard?

A is in the same position, Dvorak or qwerty.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "10%" a typo? :)

10% is a lot of hacker ethos. Few take shits on toilets they made themselves all the time. Few make their own mattress or intentionally hack their brainwaves with external and/or internal devices when they sleep. And very few are consuming soylent regularly. You could have written your own email client, browser, and you could be writing code on a CPU you designed yourself, just to avoid the day-to-day grunge of unhac…

So yes, 10% was a typo then.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#115
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, worth can be drawn simply by applying the model I outlined above. References may add more worth if you're looking for verification (which I don't blame), but it's also a daunting task to compile such lists. Your comment on the other hand, could've just asked me for sources and that would've been productive, but instead you chose to just dismiss the entire argument cynically with a single statement; that literally…

I just don't understand how you can state bold claims like this as facts without substantiating them in any way by references or any sort of logical deduction: If a person learned to become exceptionally 'talented' in one area, then he/she's more likely to replicate that same level success in a completely new area The only limiting factor on skill acquisition is choice/taste. Doesn't genetics also have some role here…

Genetics do play a surprisingly significant role, and my second reference (book) even mentions it in the title. IQ is strongly believed to be linked to genetics, but again, as I listed in one of the sources, even IQ doesn't necessarily factor into skill acquisition, only ease of skill acquisition; two distinct but important points. You can learn to learn better -- that is the main point. It doesn't matter where you start off (i.e. IQ via genetics), you can still get a skill snowball-effect going relative to where you started. It seems you missed the second part of my last comment where I mentioned it was more segmented and context based (like your citation states), but that the general trajectory is still the same. Learn a skill in one context, any subsequent skills in the same context become easier. The thing is that there are things that generalize to multiple contexts, and that some contexts are larger than they seem[1].

Now, it is certainly much harder for some people to acquire certain skills, and it may be near impossible to excel at them up to a certain level (e.g. physical athleticism). But skill level is again different from the skill itself, and it is the skills themselves that matter in skill acquisition. For example, if running ability is found to be genetically limited, then getting any better at it may be harder for you, but picking up a sport like football would probably still be much easier for you if you trained your running first regardless. IQ being genetically determined can impact other things like motivation; i.e. if you have a low IQ things will be harder for you, making you less likely to pursue skill acquisition in the future, and conversely, a high IQ may predispose you to acquiring more skills since they come so easily to you, but the point is that neither absolutely determine how many skills you can/will acquire.

I made a 'bold' statement because it's just that practical of a perspective to take[2]. And science backs it up not only in terms of all the positive effects exercising brain plasticity brings[3], but also in the fact that IQ isn't an end-all be-all metric. It is significant, and highly correlated to other important things like life expectancy[4], but IQ itself is not the limit. A built-in limit to skill acquisition would have to come somewhere else down the line if there is one. I study this stuff on my free time because it interests me, I'm not an expert/scientist, so trying to discover a well-defined concrete limit to skill acquisition is beyond my domain, but stuff like epigenetics and plasticity is making it harder to believe there is one.

[1] I believe the last cite in my previous comment shows an example of this. Also, I myself have a pretty average IQ of ~114 or something, but this view has allowed me to learn a surprising number of skills before I even knew any of the science around it, so of course I'm biased and wanted to share.

[2] Well, that and the fact that most people simply don't bother to look at painfully constructed source lists anyway, making the endeavor of compiling them less worth it.

[3] One example: http://news.stanford.edu/news/2003/september24/dementia.html

[4] http://www.mrc.ac.uk/About/AnnualReview09-10/SevenAges/Elder...

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#116
post #79

In the heady days of my youth in the early 90's I was foolishly of the opinion that Apple would one day rule the world, and that Steve Jobs would be seen as some sort of Christ figure. I kinda looked up to him in that fashion, at the time, even before he'd come back to Apple after Next. Of course, when I actually became an adult, I realized the error of my ways, switched to Linux,and over time my admiration only grew…

Rather than picking one over the other, I would say that it would have been best if Jobs had had a little more Woz in him (to appreciate the tech more), Woz had had a little more Jobs (to sell himself more), and they had continued to work together. Apple would be an even bigger player than it is today, I think.

Nice to think, but no, they needed each other. It's not just the skillsets that differ. But the perspective, the model you build up of reality, which details you attend to. A person - even a genius - only has so much bandwidth, and if they're doing something difficult and worthwhile, it will take all of it.

FWIW, they really did appreciate each other. I'm not sure what could have made things work out better - but note that Jobs left too (i.e. kicked out). It's turbulent waters, hard to plan.

fun fact when the iPhone 4S was publicised as having "dual-core graphics", Woz complained that this technical detail was not relevant to users, only the result was. He appreciates Jobs' perspective better than present-day Apple does.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#117

In the heady days of my youth in the early 90's I was foolishly of the opinion that Apple would one day rule the world, and that Steve Jobs would be seen as some sort of Christ figure. I kinda looked up to him in that fashion, at the time, even before he'd come back to Apple after Next. Of course, when I actually became an adult, I realized the error of my ways, switched to Linux,and over time my admiration only grew…

> The early Apple I's came with a complete explanation of how they were laid out, hardware-wise.

Publishing details at pretty much that level was the norm at the time, nothing particularly special for Apple. E.g. up until at least '87 or '88 (and quite possibly later), pretty much all Commodore hardware had proper schematics in their manuals, and they provided separate documentation with much more detail.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#118
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the general public, but I listen to Bloomberg financial radio a lot, and know-nothing finance types definitely believe that Apple needs another product - any product - immediately. On the other side, different analysts say both the watch market and the TV market are too small to matter, so Apple is also doomed if they do. That the MP3 player, smartphone and tablet markets were also "too small" before Apple releas…

how is the watch market "too small"? Everybody owns a watch. Also if you go out, you'll always see plenty of watch stores, and watch advertisements.

Firstly, I see fewer people with watches these days, as a watch is basically a fashion statement these days.

Secondly, the portion of that market that buy "techie" phones as opposed to what's effectively a variation of a bracelet is vanishingly small, so the size of the overall watch market is irrelevant.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#120

For a better film concerning the same topic, try pirates of silicon valley. Its a bit old, but quite good.

You should also read "Fire in the Valley". Awesome book about the beginnings of the computer revolution in Silicon Valley.

My problem with this, as much of the stuff written about early personal computer history, is the focus on Silicon Valley to the exclusion or downplaying all the stuff that happened outside the valley, often combined with massively exaggerating the early importance of Apple.
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