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The entire US Code is now online in XML

uscodebeta.house.gov

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Re: The entire US Code is now online in XML

#111

Post by spiritplumber »

anigbrowl wrote: post #103
OldSchool wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least for me, accustomed to logic, determinism and mathematical models for laws of nature, this was actually a surprise. Instinctively I still find it distasteful, though I can't say I have anything better to offer other than the unrealistic ideal that all judges would be guaranteed to be truly impartial. I have never directly benefited nor been harmed by the nature of this 'code' either, unless you count getting…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del's_incompleteness_the...

Italian law defines itself as being complete at any given time. This is why I do not follow Italian law, because it's impossible to follow ipso facto. Is this formally consistent?

Re: The entire US Code is now online in XML

#112

Post by officemonkey »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #38
liscovich wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia: "When sections are repealed, their text is deleted and replaced by a note summarizing what used to be there." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Code#Treatment_o...

Imagine trying to keep track of this in paper form instead of digitally.

Imagine? I used to do it. When I first started out, I would get stacks of the Chicago Municipal Code revisions on onionskin and it was my job to follow the instructions to update the five-inch binder.

"Remove pages 123.4 - 123.6 and replace with pages 123.4a-123.7."

Later, when I learned about diffs, I understood the concept immediately.

Re: The entire US Code is now online in XML

#113

Post by rmc »

jamieb wrote: post #105
lobotryas wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make this sound like a bad thing. Would you really prefer "black and white" laws that leave zero room for flexibility or interpretation in light of a given situation?

Yes, we should have black and white laws, and unit tests for them. So someone could write a unit test for "Will this allow the NSA to create a secret court that is outside the rule of law?" or "Does accessing a university computer that has an open access policy allow for a sentence of 130 years?" I believe we'd see a lot simpler laws.

I think that's impossible with the current English language, and the fact that human beings disagree about lots of things.

Re: The entire US Code is now online in XML

#114

Post by rmc »

OldSchool wrote: post #53

Caveat for for many of us overly rational thinkers: the powers that be deliberately are allowed to 'interpret' this code nondeterministically by many different means including its 'spirit,' admissibility of relevant information, manipulation of venue and participants, apparently even extrajudicial proceedings lately. In short, that allows a lawyer to answer almost any question with "it depends," and start billing.

No, judges (who mainly interpret words in laws and partially juries), are not allowed to just make things up all the time, which is what you're implying.

Re: The entire US Code is now online in XML

#115

Post by pseingatl »

liscovich wrote: post #90
adregan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if 17 years is fast for the government or slow.

We might have to wait even longer for all the common law based on the court rulings to be published in the same format. Not to mention the "secret common law" based on the FISA court rulings.

Not sure what format the files are kept in, but it's been done. Several private companies have these behind a paywall:ThompsonWest and Lexis/Nexis are the most well known, but there are others. Don't forget the published caselaw of the fifty states as well as state legislation. The U.S. Code is far from the whole picture.

Re: The entire US Code is now online in XML

#116

Post by rmc »

maaku wrote: post #87
pnathan wrote: post #6

I'm really tempted to collect the XML files and put them on github, with periodic checkpoints to update it with the latest. Watching the evolution of law over time is a fascinating thing and using SW engineering tools to help would be really fun.

It would be even awesome-er (and more useful) if you could parse individual bills and amendments into diffs, which get merged into 'master' as they become law. I'd love to `git blame` the U.S. code.

But that only works at the shallow level. A crook can get around that by asking/bribing/convincing someone else to be the one who's responsible for the amenment.

Re: The entire US Code is now online in XML

#117

Post by DannyBee »

gmartres wrote: post #109
mjn wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Git's built-in diff algorithm is particularly bad for text. Since it's aimed at line-oriented code, it does line-based diffs, which is horrible for ASCII text that is reflowed, because every line in a paragraph will show up as changed for a small change. Example: https://github.com/divegeek/uscode/commit/1fb2d83137dad1c6ca... What's happened is that "Section 2" was moved later in the sentence, abbreviated as "Sec. 2"…

> Since it's aimed at line-oriented code, it does line-based diffs You can do word diffs with git: git diff --word-diff=color

It's still recreating a word based diff from a line based diff.

See diff.c line 793 for how it works.

Re: The entire US Code is now online in XML

#118

Post by rmc »

liscovich wrote: post #79

If you were to start a new country, what would the legislative process look like there? For example, how should new "startup nations" like BlueSeed ( http://blueseed.co ) inspired by Seasteading Institute go about passing and storing laws? Should they have some sort of open github repo to which anyone can make pull requests? How do you see the congress of the future?

Usually countries inherit the laws from the country they are decended from.

Re: The entire US Code is now online in XML

#119

Post by anigbrowl »

spiritplumber wrote: post #111
anigbrowl wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del's_incompleteness_the...

Italian law defines itself as being complete at any given time. This is why I do not follow Italian law, because it's impossible to follow ipso facto. Is this formally consistent?

Presumably not. In passing, though, I do think a lot of HNers would be happier living in a civil law jurisdiction like Italy.

Re: The entire US Code is now online in XML

#120

Post by ISL »

lobotryas wrote: post #57
OldSchool wrote: post #53

Caveat for for many of us overly rational thinkers: the powers that be deliberately are allowed to 'interpret' this code nondeterministically by many different means including its 'spirit,' admissibility of relevant information, manipulation of venue and participants, apparently even extrajudicial proceedings lately. In short, that allows a lawyer to answer almost any question with "it depends," and start billing.

You make this sound like a bad thing. Would you really prefer "black and white" laws that leave zero room for flexibility or interpretation in light of a given situation?

When that black and white law is:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I'll go with yes. Alas, interpretation then falls to the definition and grammar of every part of said law.

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