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Illegally climbing the Golden Gate bridge at dawn (2011)

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Re: Illegally climbing the Golden Gate bridge at dawn (2011)

#111

Post by bherms »

timr wrote: post #97
lostlogin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only been there once, but I'm picking that harsh weather, height and the need for attachment points outside the existing bridge make it expensive. I'm not at all surprised that it is expensive, but I am that it hasn't been done yet.

A primary complaint, believe it or not, is that the net would hurt the aesthetics of the bridge. People have been pushing for a net for years, but a variety of (lame) excuses keep conspiring against it. The reality is that there's no really good reason to keep from doing it...just a lot of little bad ones that seem to win.

It's not really our job to protect everyone from themselves though and adding a net not only would hurt the aesthetic of the bridge, but serve as a constant, dreary reminder of death. In addition, adding a net is simply a small measure at treating a symptom without affecting the cause. Lastly, what would adding a net solve? The people who wanted to kill themselves by jumping off now know there is a net to stop it, so they decide to kill themselves some other way instead.

Re: Illegally climbing the Golden Gate bridge at dawn (2011)

#112

Post by bherms »

omegaham wrote: post #88
hnriot wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not sure what this had to do the parent comment, but if there's a net, people will find other ways. It's like making prostitution illegal, did it really cut down on the number of people having sex? Of course not.

As said by Scott, suicide is very rarely a well thought-out action. It's something that is decided on a whim and often passes just as quickly. Drug companies in Britain experimented by putting pills in blister packs instead of bottles and found out that suicide rates dropped dramatically. Apparently, the amount of time it took to pull each individual pill out of the blister pack was enough to make people think about…

But this effectively removes the chance that it'll kill you. Getting to the GG Bridge is not a simple thing to do... If you're going to kill yourself, the impulse is there, sure, but you had to go pretty far out of your way to do it. With a bottle of pills, many people have a bottle of pills from a previous surgery or something sitting around. Way easier to get wasted while depressed and make a rash decision to down the bottle than it is to make the trek all the way out to the middle of the Golden Gate.

Re: Illegally climbing the Golden Gate bridge at dawn (2011)

#113

Post by anigbrowl »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #60
DanBC wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People committing suicide would tend to jump off the bridge into the water? There are, very roughly, one person committing suicide per fortnight from the Goldengate Bridge. One idea to slow down that number o fdeaths is to install a big net. It'll hurt when people land on it, and that might be enough to snap them out of the impulsive decision to end their lives. The net would cost about $45m. Some people might feel t…

I'm genuinely curious how a net to go under the bridge would cost $45m. How?

The Golden Gate Bridge is huge - 2700 meters long and 250 meters high, with high winds and fog. That's a pretty large undertaking.

Re: Illegally climbing the Golden Gate bridge at dawn (2011)

#114

Post by yread »

base698 wrote: post #40

I have been BASE jumping for quite a while and within that community there is a strong thread of leave no trace. It reduces the legal risk, eliminates property damage, and keeps it open for everyone else. Back to Joe, I found his blog and saw a picture of him setting off fireworks on top of a crane I had just climbed and jumped in the city I used to live. I kept thinking the increased security probably should have le…

WTF was he arrested for?!

Re: Illegally climbing the Golden Gate bridge at dawn (2011)

#115

Post by yason »

I caught myself wondering why climbing the bridge has to be illegal.

You can't practically damage the bridge. You will mostly just hurt yourself if something happens. Theoretically the worst that could happen is you could fall onto a car but the damages incurred by a dead climber would be peanuts for any insurance company — people crash their cars by themselves alone all the time. And that could already happen because climbing being illegal doesn't stop the people who want to climb the bridge, as demonstrated in the article.

Of course, there's there "could" track where anything "could" happen thus it must be declared illegal before it happens, but you can extend that thinking to nearly everything until living just becomes impossible. For example, it "should be illegal to climb the big rocks on the shores because you could fall on an innocent party on a boat".

I would be inclined to reserve the illegal status for activities that actively affect other people. Stealing, mugging, murdering, manslaughtering, kidnapping, etc. Conversely, accidents just happen.

Re: Illegally climbing the Golden Gate bridge at dawn (2011)

#116

Post by q_revert »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #60
DanBC wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People committing suicide would tend to jump off the bridge into the water? There are, very roughly, one person committing suicide per fortnight from the Goldengate Bridge. One idea to slow down that number o fdeaths is to install a big net. It'll hurt when people land on it, and that might be enough to snap them out of the impulsive decision to end their lives. The net would cost about $45m. Some people might feel t…

I'm genuinely curious how a net to go under the bridge would cost $45m. How?

"the bridge" is a fantastic documentary which looks into issues, and talks with some of the people who lost family to depression/suicide on the Golden Gate bridge. Well worth watching

[edit] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0799954

Re: Illegally climbing the Golden Gate bridge at dawn (2011)

#117

Post by semanticist »

bherms wrote: post #112
omegaham wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As said by Scott, suicide is very rarely a well thought-out action. It's something that is decided on a whim and often passes just as quickly. Drug companies in Britain experimented by putting pills in blister packs instead of bottles and found out that suicide rates dropped dramatically. Apparently, the amount of time it took to pull each individual pill out of the blister pack was enough to make people think about…

But this effectively removes the chance that it'll kill you. Getting to the GG Bridge is not a simple thing to do... If you're going to kill yourself, the impulse is there, sure, but you had to go pretty far out of your way to do it. With a bottle of pills, many people have a bottle of pills from a previous surgery or something sitting around. Way easier to get wasted while depressed and make a rash decision to down…

You're making the mistake of assuming that someone who is going to end their life is thinking in any kind of rational way.

They're not. This isn't a problem that you can't apply normal logic to. Instead you need to look at what works and copy that - and last-minute disruption/difficulty works.

Here is an example of a suicidal thought process, from my own experience: "I don't want to die, but given the situation I'm in I can't see any other option. I don't want to do it. I just need a reason to keep going."

When you can't find that reason, you do something fatal. The reason can be anything, the smallest thing can keep you going.

Some people kill themselves for different reasons, and I think people that have never suffered from depression have that kind of suicide in mind. The guy who kills himself rather than live with the shame of blah blah blah. (Or for the insurance money for his family.)

That's not a depression-related suicide, and I suspect they're pretty rare. Someone with depression isn't thinking that rationally. If they were, they wouldn't be suicidal in the first place.

Re: Illegally climbing the Golden Gate bridge at dawn (2011)

#118

Post by joshfraser »

wololo wrote: post #82
joshfraser wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was offered the chance to do this in Egypt. I was told that it was totally safe as long as I brought along enough bride money in the event that we got caught.

how much?

$20

Re: Illegally climbing the Golden Gate bridge at dawn (2011)

#119

Post by bherms »

semanticist wrote: post #117
bherms wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this effectively removes the chance that it'll kill you. Getting to the GG Bridge is not a simple thing to do... If you're going to kill yourself, the impulse is there, sure, but you had to go pretty far out of your way to do it. With a bottle of pills, many people have a bottle of pills from a previous surgery or something sitting around. Way easier to get wasted while depressed and make a rash decision to down…

You're making the mistake of assuming that someone who is going to end their life is thinking in any kind of rational way. They're not. This isn't a problem that you can't apply normal logic to. Instead you need to look at what works and copy that - and last-minute disruption/difficulty works. Here is an example of a suicidal thought process, from my own experience: "I don't want to die, but given the situation I'm i…

But removing the ability to kill oneself by installing a net removes the possibility. If you're going to kill yourself, you don't try to do it via a means that has no chance of success. With a net installed, all the chance of success is removed, so people aren't going to try it there. You don't hear about failed suicide attempts jumping off a car onto grass. And I've battled with severe depression and alcoholism in my past. I spent nearly half a year thinking I was going to end my life every day and instead crawled into a bottle. You're right in that we're not thinking rationally, but at the same time, irrational "I must escape" thoughts also don't drive you to say "hey, I know, let me go way out of my way to attempt suicide in a way that I know will not work."

edit: if anything, more people will probably jump, but not to kill themselves. thrillseekers might do it just for the hell of it (despite the fact there will likely be a big penalty)

Re: Illegally climbing the Golden Gate bridge at dawn (2011)

#120

Post by lostlogin »

sneak wrote: post #106
timr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A primary complaint, believe it or not, is that the net would hurt the aesthetics of the bridge. People have been pushing for a net for years, but a variety of (lame) excuses keep conspiring against it. The reality is that there's no really good reason to keep from doing it...just a lot of little bad ones that seem to win.

How about "it's not society's job to keep people (even insane ones) from doing what they want with their own bodies"? You can take this to apply to everything from the inside of one's uterus to hurling oneself off a bridge.

It is societies job to look after everyone, especially the unwell. I do recall there being a handrail, so someone believes in some safety.
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