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John Gruber and friends launch Vesper note capture app

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Re: John Gruber and friends launch Vesper note capture app

#111

Post by josephlord »

rednukleus wrote: post #108
josephlord wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would prefer not to write software for Android or Windows because I don't want to support Google or Microsoft if I can help it[1]. Google is too powerful and has too much data and I really don't trust them. Microsoft while reasonably well behaved recently (maybe because they have lacked the power not to be) have a long history of dubious practices and unfairly squashing competition. Linux, Blackberry, Firefox OS, I…

Thanks for the response. So it is an ethics thing with you. Personally the idea of supporting Apple over Google is alien to me, but is interesting reading other people's perspectives.

I meant to include that I don't think that Apple are saints either. However their business model is largely making stuff people want and selling it with an upfront price rather than you (and the data trail you leave) being the product to be sold to advertisers. Google's scale and data collection creep me out already without adding more to it by using an Android phone, and therefore I don't want to encourage others to do things that I wouldn't do.

But as I said its a preference rather than a hard black and white line for me, major corporations have their own interests at heart not customers/users where they conflict.

Re: John Gruber and friends launch Vesper note capture app

#112

Post by [deleted] »

rednukleus wrote: post #109
jkubicek wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why bother? An app like this is going to make significantly more money in the Apple ecosystem. With all the Vesper features they could be working on, I'm sure they don't see any need to spend time on Android or Windows right now.

> An app like this is going to make significantly more money in the Apple ecosystem More money possibly, but its hard to imagine it is not worth the cost of porting these types of apps - and that's what is relevant. Unless it is an ideological thing.

[deleted]

Re: John Gruber and friends launch Vesper note capture app

#113

Post by josephlord »

josephlord wrote: post #105
jchrisa wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been working on sync for a number of years, and have created an open-source lightweight iOS library and backend server. It's still alpha, but it's already in use by a handful of apps in the App Store. Here's an overview: https://github.com/couchbase/mobile The iOS embedded sync database: https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-ios Embedded sync database for Android: https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-li…

Stuff like this helps. I have looked at this for my lists app ( http://itunes.com/apps/fastlists - mostly for checklists and repeated use lists rather than todo lists) and may look again but there are still scenarios where you have to do one of the following: 1) throw user data away. 2) ask the user a question about how to resolve the conflict 3) save both copies and leave the user to figure out which one they actual…

Just realised the link is broken and too late to edit: http://blog.helftone.com/clear-in-the-icloud

It seems HN doesn't like a comment ending with a "/" in a link.

Re: John Gruber and friends launch Vesper note capture app

#114

Post by rednukleus »

josephlord wrote: post #111
rednukleus wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the response. So it is an ethics thing with you. Personally the idea of supporting Apple over Google is alien to me, but is interesting reading other people's perspectives.

I meant to include that I don't think that Apple are saints either. However their business model is largely making stuff people want and selling it with an upfront price rather than you (and the data trail you leave) being the product to be sold to advertisers. Google's scale and data collection creep me out already without adding more to it by using an Android phone, and therefore I don't want to encourage others to…

I can see the logic in that point of view. For me the big thing is lock-in. Google let me transition off their services easily, and I can also use their products on a wide range of hardware. Microsoft is somewhat "open" in this respect, but less so. Apple actively push their customers into using software and services that only work on their hardware. Jobs and Gates both categorised their fight as Closed against Open, and personally I have a really hard time supporting Closed, even when Open means letting companies use my data to sell me ads.

I dont write native apps, so I dont know if push came to shove if I would avoid writing apps for iOS or not.

Re: John Gruber and friends launch Vesper note capture app

#115

Post by josephlord »

rednukleus wrote: post #114
josephlord wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant to include that I don't think that Apple are saints either. However their business model is largely making stuff people want and selling it with an upfront price rather than you (and the data trail you leave) being the product to be sold to advertisers. Google's scale and data collection creep me out already without adding more to it by using an Android phone, and therefore I don't want to encourage others to…

I can see the logic in that point of view. For me the big thing is lock-in. Google let me transition off their services easily, and I can also use their products on a wide range of hardware. Microsoft is somewhat "open" in this respect, but less so. Apple actively push their customers into using software and services that only work on their hardware. Jobs and Gates both categorised their fight as Closed against Open,…

I don't feel more locked in to iOS than I would be to Android. If I changed device I would lose apps, including purchased ones but little else.

Yes the services are only available on their hardware but hardware choice is far from the biggest issue with this sort of freedom, ability to leave the supplier entirely is the power I want and precisely because they offer less (or at least I use less) than the full Google ecosystem I have a lower barrier to exit.

I use iCloud only with some apps that support it and the photostream functionality but I have all my photos offline too. I don't buy DRMed media so could transfer my music elsewhere. I don't use Apple or Google mail services, but pay for a separate IMAP provider. I have some documents in Pages but they could be exported as a different format and there doesn't seem to be difference in lock in to Word or even Google Docs.

Regarding open vs. closed I prefer open too. I like open source and have a Linux server. However I don't see Google as that much more open than Apple. Both release large amounts of Open Source software (LLVM, Webkit if you struggle to think of Apple examples) but only in areas where it benefits them. Open has reduced benefits where a single corporate interest has full control of the direction of the project.

Re: John Gruber and friends launch Vesper note capture app

#116

Post by rednukleus »

josephlord wrote: post #115
rednukleus wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see the logic in that point of view. For me the big thing is lock-in. Google let me transition off their services easily, and I can also use their products on a wide range of hardware. Microsoft is somewhat "open" in this respect, but less so. Apple actively push their customers into using software and services that only work on their hardware. Jobs and Gates both categorised their fight as Closed against Open,…

I don't feel more locked in to iOS than I would be to Android. If I changed device I would lose apps, including purchased ones but little else. Yes the services are only available on their hardware but hardware choice is far from the biggest issue with this sort of freedom, ability to leave the supplier entirely is the power I want and precisely because they offer less (or at least I use less) than the full Google ec…

> hardware choice is far from the biggest issue with this sort of freedom

This might be why we differ. To me it's a huge issue - that I can continue to buy from a range of hardware manufacturers, and install my own OS and software. My computers all have Linux + Windows 8, and my phones have always had custom ROMs on there. I get that not everyone needs that, but Apple stopping me from installing OS X on my laptop, which is perfectly capable of running it, just strikes me as "evil".

If you go out of your way to avoid Apple services that lock you in, then I suppose that you could be reasonably free to exit. But on an iOS device you can't get out of using default apps like Apple Maps, and services like FaceTime and iMessage encourage people to connect with their family and friends through a system which is almost unique in only working on one manufacturer's hardware/OS (the only other example is BBM, which I also avoid).

> I don't see Google as that much more open than Apple

I see them as much more open than Apple, probably because it is in their best interest to be. Google's continuing existence is based on people's ability to use their services from any platform. They are trying to make hardware and operating systems less relevant by moving everything onto the internet. In order to do this, they need everything to be interoperable, and they do that through openness. Apple's business on the other hand is about getting people into their walled garden and keeping them there. Microsoft did that to an extent with trying to lock everyone into Windows, but in my view Apple are a million times worse, as they are trying to lock people into their OS and their hardware - and in many cases their software as well (eg. Maps and other default applications).

With respect to Android, you can use it without using a single Google service.

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