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The Fallacy of Money As A Means

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Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#111

I don't want a lot of money. I would like just enough to afford shelter, food and internet, so I can not die and keep working on making software development better.

Following the article, maybe that falls into the category of “autonomy over your time”. I don’t normally think about money at all unless someone reminds me by asking me to pay for food, rent, bills, whatever—it’s just a means to keep me fed, programming, and travelling to see my girlfriend.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#112

If you don't care about changing the world or creating a great company or building stuff, you probably shouldn't be an entrepreneur. But if you're going to pick a fake motivation for your pitch deck, "I just want to build stuff" is pretty lame. Do people really say that when it isn't even true?

“I just want to build stuff” is often true if qualified: “…that a lot of people use”, “…that makes people’s lives better”, “…to further my plans for world domination”, &c.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#113
post #96

Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things". Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing. Without money, you can't really do anything, all your choices have been taken from you. As you start accumulating money, more and more doors open up, and you are increasingly free to do what you like. Money is, almost by definition, the abstraction of means. There's probably an u…

Money is more than freedom. Money is safety as well. I can't really understand why this isn't more obvious to people. And I'm not talking about living in run-down neighborhoods as a result of being poor. Having money gives you the safety of "if I'm stranded I have money to buy a place to stay for the night" or "if I'm hungry, I will be able to find a place to eat."

I understand that a lot of people don't understand these feelings if you haven't been poor but they are real.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#114

I don't want a lot of money. I would like just enough to afford shelter, food and internet, so I can not die and keep working on making software development better.

Following the article, maybe that falls into the category of “autonomy over your time”. I don’t normally think about money at all unless someone reminds me by asking me to pay for food, rent, bills, whatever—it’s just a means to keep me fed, programming, and travelling to see my girlfriend.

Yep.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#115

If you don't care about changing the world or creating a great company or building stuff, you probably shouldn't be an entrepreneur. But if you're going to pick a fake motivation for your pitch deck, "I just want to build stuff" is pretty lame. Do people really say that when it isn't even true?

“I just want to build stuff” is often true if qualified: “…that a lot of people use”, “…that makes people’s lives better”, “…to further my plans for world domination”, &c.

I was reacting to this:

Guy decides he wants to be a tech entrepreneur. He tells people “he likes building things” because that seems to be a publicly acceptable rationale for building a tech company…but super secretly he just sees starting a tech company as a means to generating an inordinate amount of wealth quickly in a way that’s more enjoyable than playing excel like a keyboard.

I think many or most of us, especially in YC circles, do start a company because we "like building things" -- not literally just that, but it's a part of our motivation or identity to get inherent pleasure from building things. If you don't, though, I see no reason to fake it. It may be cool and trendy to be a maker at heart, but it's certainly no prerequisite for starting a company.

We've really come full circle if we've gone from legitimizing and celebrating hackers and makers as founders to the point where people are posing as them to better fit a script. It sounds like cargo cult entrepreneurship or Zuck mania.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#116
post #96

Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things". Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing. Without money, you can't really do anything, all your choices have been taken from you. As you start accumulating money, more and more doors open up, and you are increasingly free to do what you like. Money is, almost by definition, the abstraction of means. There's probably an u…

"Money is freedom". I think we can all more or less agree with this. But what I don't hear very often is: "Should it be?"

I think it is very obvious that no, it shouldn't. Implicit in the statement that money == freedom is !money == !freedom. Without money you are not free.

I want to be very clear here: This. Is. Wrong.

Do I have a solution? No. Not a palatable one. But I urge you to at least think about it. There are not enough people of means giving this fundamental question any thought.

The world will go on regardless of whether or not we end this immoral game of money. But I am willing to bet that the future will look back at us and be disgusted and sickened.

Can't we at least try?

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.lomography.com/magazine/lifestyle/2011/10/06/stev... I've seen that picture and story referenced many times as an example of a pure drive that isn't influenced by money. That it was "all you need". At the time Steve Jobs was already a multi, multi-millionaire (from the IPO of Apple in 1980 he was worth some $200 million). He had the freedom to never worry about basic needs, could travel the world at his le…

Seeing that photo all the time makes me cringe a bit, after all this was the guy who ordered this: http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/7158603/Steve_jo...

I'm getting a policy denied on that (they must have a set referrer), however I assume it's the custom yacht. I have to say for a man involved with so many brilliant, beautiful things, that yacht is truly the ugliest yacht I've ever seen.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#118
post #96

Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things". Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing. Without money, you can't really do anything, all your choices have been taken from you. As you start accumulating money, more and more doors open up, and you are increasingly free to do what you like. Money is, almost by definition, the abstraction of means. There's probably an u…

There are some people who had no money, but did amazing things. Gandhi, Mother Teresa, etc.. Even Steve Jobs had nothing when he first started Apple.

I keep hearing how money is "freedom" or buys you fearlessness. I don't buy it.

Freedom and fearlessness happen inside. And, when you have those things inside, amazing things happen on the outside. With or without money - it doesn't matter.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#119
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement erroneously associates financial success with happiness. Provably untrue.

I was going to complain about the same thing, but it turns out that @lsc said "more money does not always mean more successful children". Perhaps it was a poor choice of words and he really meant "happier" instead of "more successful".

I was talking about financial success, of course. I'm not qualified to speak of 'self-actualization' or what have you. I specifically said:

>Now, I mean, when I say I'm more successful, I mean financially, maybe they are happier, I don't know. It's quite possible; I certainly wouldn't call myself well-adjusted. And certainly, that can be more important than money; but I'm pretty much the only one here that wouldn't be in trouble if our parental safety net went away, and that's kindof a big thing, I think.

so yeah. it's quite possible my siblings are happier than I am. I don't know, but I am fairly certain that they would be happier than they are now if they had more money (or rather, had more independent earning power.)

I mean, sure, money doesn't buy happiness... but, at least until you have 'enough'? it makes a pretty big difference; I've had 'enough' I think, by that standard, pretty much since I reached the age of majority, and it gives me a huge degree of freedom that my siblings mostly don't have.

(that said, I probably would be a lot happier if I focused less on money and more on the other stuff. I mean, right now I'm putting a lot of effort into running a business when I could live fairly well just contracting for other people maybe one third of the time, and instead focus on other things.)

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#120
post #96

Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things". Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing. Without money, you can't really do anything, all your choices have been taken from you. As you start accumulating money, more and more doors open up, and you are increasingly free to do what you like. Money is, almost by definition, the abstraction of means. There's probably an u…

>There's probably an upper cap for this effect, but I'd argue that 99% of us will never reach that.

I think that you have diminishing returns on this as you earn more money... I don't think it's so much a hard cut off. The 'freedom' difference between being dependent on family for rent and being able to support yourself is larger, in my opinion, than the freedom difference between owning your home and owning a block of apartments.

In my mind, if you can make a programmers wage, and you feel like you can easily get another job if fired? you have a pretty large degree of freedom.

I also think that 'job security' or, perhaps 'perceived income security' has as much to do with this freedom as does the amount you earn. If you feel like your boss can fire you at any time, and if you feel like you can't easily get a new job? you... are going to feel rather less free than someone who either thinks they can get another job fairly easily or who feels that they can't be fired.

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