Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#111

Post by dsego » Tue, May 14, 2013, 5:27 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #72

Kluny wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The drivers aren't doing it purposely. They have been driving for 16 hours, are in an unfamiliar city, and are almost asleep at the wheel.

If you deliberately put yourself in a situation where you're operating a machine without the mental faculties you need to do it safely, then I think we can safely say that you deliberately caused the accident, even though you may not have thought, in so many words, "I think I'll go cause an accident now."

People are probably more afraid of losing their jobs. They also probably think it won't happen to them.

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#112

Post by xradionut » Tue, May 14, 2013, 5:28 PM UTC

dustingetz wrote: post #79

speeder wrote: post #69

And I think some people will STILL crash on the tunnel anyway. I made a arcade game once: www.abril.com.br/blog/campus-party/2011/01/19/fanatico-por-jogos-leva-seu-proprio-fliperama-para-a-arena/ It has instructions printed on the sides of the screen... It was VERY, VERY, VERY common to someone ask people around them what a button do (sometimes to even random passerby people, or for example a couple arrived at the ma…

its because most instructions are unhelpful and a waste time to read, so we're conditioned to ignore them.

Even when you make great, easy to understand documetation, people are fucking lazy. That fact keeps the most of people in our support department employed.

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#113

Post by twistedpair » Tue, May 14, 2013, 5:31 PM UTC

fab13n wrote: post #74

That's a cute high-tech solution. A simpler one is to put a horizontal bar, the same height as the tunnel's ceiling, which will physically stop the truck before causing millions worth of damages. It's often done in France, sometimes with an early warning: a first arch with chains hanging to the maximal height. It makes a lot of noise on the truck's top, but won't destroy it.

You just need to remember that a small number of people are just not going to get it. Mostly truck drivers that are dead tired. That water screen does the trick because you're not expecting it. Signs, bumps, and noises are all common to highway driving.

In Boston a few months ago a coach bus had the top ripped off going under a 10ft bridge on a road that truck/bus traffic is banned from. The driver hit several low bars and signs and plowed onward until the bridge cut the top off. Several times a year this happens on Storrow Drive, despite all the warning devices as some drivers just can't be reached.

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/02/...

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#114

Post by goblin89 » Tue, May 14, 2013, 5:31 PM UTC

sdfjkl wrote: post #13

aashaykumar92 wrote: post #7

What a neat idea! But if these trucks are PURPOSEFULLY breaking the laws and continuing to go through the tunnel, I am not sure that this solution will hold up for too long; after all, the clever truck drivers will know it is a mere illusion. Furthermore, instead of a water screen, wouldn't a brick screen be more effective? Personally, I wouldn't mind going through water nearly as much as I would be running into a br…

Err, they're not going through the tunnel. They're too tall for it. They crash into the roof of the tunnel, causing severe damage to the infrastructure, their trucks and anyone who happens to pass by.

There's likely some space left between actual tunnel height and truck height limitation (for safety), and clever driver's incentive to go through the tunnel (if it's a nice shortcut) might be stronger than any kind of sign.

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#115

Post by devrelm » Tue, May 14, 2013, 5:33 PM UTC

steve-howard wrote: post #76

jessedhillon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we have reliable, safe, self-driving cars this is the first industry that should be replaced by robots. How archaic is it that we pay people to ruin their bodies while attempting the inhuman task of keeping perfectly alert for several boring hours, while piloting a giant mass at lethal speeds.

Unfortunately when we have reliable, safe, self-driving cars, the loudest complainers will be truck drivers who now have to find new careers. I hope I don't sound too mean to hope their concerns are ignored.

I predict legislation saying that certain self-driving vehicles cannot be unmanned. This benefits the truck driver while still maintaining a reason to have one. Besides, someone will still have to fill the thing with diesel.

In the long term, though, you're most likely right; truck drivers will have to find new careers. However, said legislation combined with what I believe will be slow adoption due to high cost should give truck drivers a decade or two to migrate to other jobs.

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#116

Post by masklinn » Tue, May 14, 2013, 5:33 PM UTC

jld wrote: post #66

astrodust wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked near a train bridge that was constantly being hit by trucks. It was a near weekly event at times. They installed big, flashing lights and drivers would still blow through.

Check out 11foot8's YouTube channel for some great examples of how common this can be in some places. http://www.youtube.com/yovo68 http://11foot8.com/

An other fun one is "2m40" (after the tunnel's height, of 7ft10), on the tunnel de l'etoile in Paris: http://www.2m40.com/ (in 2009, a truck crashed into it every 10 days and there were bets on the time the hanging sign would last)

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#117

Post by cnvogel » Tue, May 14, 2013, 5:35 PM UTC

alan_cx wrote: post #88

The drivers cannot be not simply ignoring the signs. The sign is telling them that later down the road they will absolutely get in to problems, and get literally stuck. No one would continue with that certainty of getting stuck or in trouble. On top of that, it cant be repeat offenders either. Some one who has been there before must have gotten caught out, one way or another. Its not like drivers on small roads who s…

I think truck drivers are more or less trained to ignore everything but the last-resort sign. Near where I live, there's a small bridge (railroad on top, road crosses below) with not enough height. It has some limit on vehicle height that is posted on the streets quite some distance away, so that drivers can choose an alternative route. Of course the bridges always will be higher than the posted limit, taking account inaccuracies of the actual vehicle height and movement during driving, so drivers take a certain amount of leeway for granted.

Now I've seen them back out after having touched the posted bar in front of the bridge and having (almost or actually) touched the structure countless times.

Probably with the consecutively more noticable signs in the video, it's made such that the later signs trigger just at slightly bigger heights than the earlier ones, to avoid scaring drivers that made it through the earlier ones un-warned. So I can see that a driver would try testing the later ones, just because he's pretty sure that he might fit, eventually.

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#118

Post by masklinn » Tue, May 14, 2013, 5:35 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #103

evan_ wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you see the truck in the video take out an enormous steel beam that was presumably attached to the structure of the tunnel in some kind of permanent way? How would your solution avoid the same fate?

Solid beam is probably a bad idea, but many tunnels have chains dangling above the road at the tunnel's maximum height - if you hit them, you will hear it,but they will do little damage to the vehicle.

Solid beam is an excellent idea as last recourse, from a structural POV since the vehicle is going to be destroyed anyway it's better to destroy it before it damages the tunnel itself.

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#119

Post by goatforce5 » Tue, May 14, 2013, 5:36 PM UTC

joyeuse6701 wrote: post #17

It was cool seeing it in action (I wonder who thought of it, and got passed the bureaucracy to make it happen). I wonder whether they considered industry standard truck height when building that tunnel.

Sydney's harbour tunnel was built to relieve congestion on the famous Sydney Harbour Bridge, and both the bridge and tunnel follow very similar paths.

This tunnel doesn't need to accommodate every vehicle size as there's a perfectly serviceable bridge right above you.

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#120

Post by frugalfirbolg » Tue, May 14, 2013, 5:36 PM UTC

olefoo wrote: post #71

I'm mildly surprised that requiring trucks to file travel plans has not become a more widespread practice. What with terrorism concerns, and the widespread use of GPS monitors on trucks it's both feasible and plausible. It seems like major metro areas could institute a slightly tighter control of large load vehicles; which could actually benefit from coordinating with traffic control signals in some cases.

I'm also surprised that the drivers or their company failed to check a truck atlas when planning the route. I imagine the company has just as much incentive to prevent incidents.