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SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High

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Re: SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even buying something off the shelf, that's not an absurdly expensive 'toy' ( If you build it yourself, you could put together a video platform like that for under $1k (including the gyro stabilized camera gimbal).

Hey JshWright, I recently got very interested in creating one of these and you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about this. Can you please give me advice on where a newbie can start with this? I would like to learn how to build one on my own from scratch. Thank you.

I recommend checking out forums like RCGroups, there's loads of information there.

There are many ways to start into the hobby. You can get yourself a radio and a simulator and learn to fly on the computer first. You could go for an off-the-shelf solution like the DJI Phantom that will fly very well without much tuning or fiddling (but it'll cost the part). Or you can go the DIY way - a good keyword is "MultiWii", it's a fairly cheap but rather labor-intensive way of getting your first copter to the skies.

Re: SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even buying something off the shelf, that's not an absurdly expensive 'toy' ( If you build it yourself, you could put together a video platform like that for under $1k (including the gyro stabilized camera gimbal).

Hey JshWright, I recently got very interested in creating one of these and you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about this. Can you please give me advice on where a newbie can start with this? I would like to learn how to build one on my own from scratch. Thank you.

I'm not much past the newbie stage myself...

The RCModelReviews youtube channel has a number of good videos on basic RC concepts (not multirotor specific, but the RC stuff still applies).

One tip I'll give you is to look into getting a Eurgle/FlySky/Imax/Turnigy 9x Transmitter (different brand names, same basic Chinese knockoff..). It's a solid radio with a lousy stock firmware, but there are a number of good open soruce firmwares out there that are very easy to flash onto the controller (especially if you use something like the SmartieParts programming board). For ~$100 (for the radio plus the programmer) you end up with something that rivals radios costing an order of magnitude more (or so I've heard... I've never touched a high end radio).

I'm approaching the hobby in stages:

1) Buy a Blade mQX (which comes with a cheap transmitter) and learn the basics of flying a multirotor

2) Get a 9x transmitter, mod it, and learn how it works

3) Get a 'JR compatible' OrangeRX DSM2/DSMX module for the 9x, so you can bind it with the mQX and get used to flying with the full size 'real' tranmsmitter

4) Get an 'ARF' (almost ready to fly) kit (this should include the frame, ESCs, motors, props, etc), and a flight control board (I'll probably start with something cheap like the Kk 2.0). This is a good time to learn things like "What is an ESC?".

5) Start modding your ARF quad (replace the ESCs, add a camera, get a more capable flight controller (like the Arducopter), etc)

6) Build something from scratch

I'm currently on step 3, researching step 4.

Re: SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parachutes are a pain in the ass to replace. But more than that taking a dunk in the ocean isn't so good for rockets, and spending the better part of a day with a search and recovery team and all the relevant equipment necessary out looking for the rocket and hauling it back home isn't cheap, it also adds a lot of delay to the whole workflow. Compare that to a propulsive landing on the launch pad next to the assembly…

But why everybody compares landing solely on parachutes in ocean with landing solely on engines on land? For example, Soyuz use multiple parachutes for slowing down and engines for guiding and final soft landing on land.

The Soyouz lands 'somewhere' in a fairly large target area. The recovery overhead is still non-trivial.

Something as big and 'light' as the F9 first stage will be slowed down tremendously by the atmosphere. No need to add all the extra complexity and weight of parachutes.

Re: SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parachutes are a pain in the ass to replace. But more than that taking a dunk in the ocean isn't so good for rockets, and spending the better part of a day with a search and recovery team and all the relevant equipment necessary out looking for the rocket and hauling it back home isn't cheap, it also adds a lot of delay to the whole workflow. Compare that to a propulsive landing on the launch pad next to the assembly…

But why everybody compares landing solely on parachutes in ocean with landing solely on engines on land? For example, Soyuz use multiple parachutes for slowing down and engines for guiding and final soft landing on land.

The Soyuz does not "soft land" anywhere. It basically crash lands at a speed which doesn't cause any injury. For a first stage rocket the advantages of coming down on land via just parachutes are pretty much non-existent to negative.

First off, if the goal is to save fuel from having to do a propulsive return to the launch site then that's not going to happen (except for the 2nd stage and capsule). The US has a lot of sparsely inhabited land but it doesn't have the same huge swathes of uncared for steppe that Russia/Kazakhstan have where they can just dump spent rocket stages everywhere with nary a care. There are range safety issues there that can't easily be avoided. Second, a giant rocket stage coming down on just parachutes is going to be damaged more on land than at sea. If you're trying to avoid the weight of landing gear you're just going to end up with the rocket engines crunching into the ground, which isn't going to be good at any speed. OK, so you can't save RTLS fuel, and you can't avoid having landing gear, at that point the only difference is a tiny little dribble of fuel to bring the stage in for a controlled powered landing. So you might as well just do that and be done with it.

Re: SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High

#116
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A multistage (or multi-stage) rocket is a rocket that uses two or more stages, each of which contains its own engines and propellant. A tandem or serial stage is mounted on top of another stage; a parallel stage is attached alongside another stage. The result is effectively two or more rockets stacked on top of or attached next to each other. Taken together these are sometimes called a launch vehicle. Two stage rock…

Right, excellent. Except the first stage doesn't run out of propellant does it, because it has to LAND again. Hence my puzzlement. I know why multi-stage rockets are used... I'm asking why this rocket needs them, since they solve a problem it doesn't have by design.

Rockets don't have stages because they run out of propellant, they have stages so that you don't spend 99% percent of your fuel pushing engines and tanks into orbit which you don't need once you get there.

Re: SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The very next Falcon 9 flight (out of Vandenberg) will use the performance overhead provided by the v1.1 upgrade to do a controlled reentry of the 1st stage and then after it has reached terminal velocity it will slow down to a hover out over some remote part of the ocean, then splash down. This is a good and cheap test of a huge part of the flight profile. Could you explain the first part a bit more, or point me s…

The first stage of almost any launch system wouldn't need a heat shield for reentry. The second stage absolutely would.

Any idea how fast it's going when the first stage separates?

Re: SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High

#118
post #66

For those of you who haven't seen it, here is SpaceX's fantastic animation of their ultimate goal for Falcon 9 (complete with soundtrack by Muse): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWFFiubtC3c This will give you an idea of how grasshopper fits into the full flight plan.

I don't understand the need for the intermediary stages, couldn't the main rocket just deliver the payload and then land? As it is in that video, it's having to carry engines and fuel for 3 separate stages, for no apparent reason.

It would be more convenient and cost effective to do so, if we could. But we lack the technology.

The rocket equation is a harsh mistress, it demands exponential amounts of fuel the faster you want to accelerate a given stage (specifically, as a ratio to the exhaust velocity of the rocket). Given that orbital velocity is quite high (about 8.5 km/s) relative to the exhaust velocity of the best chemical propellants (about 3 km/s for LOX/Kerosene) this results in impractical mass fractions to contend with (17:1 to get to orbit, and that's with no payload). But you can cheat. If you use staging and drop away the dead weight of empty fuel tanks and no longer needed engines from lower stages then you can make an end run around the rocket equation. You make a rocket that can accelerate a payload up to a certain velocity, then you make an even bigger rocket which can deliver the entire other rocket as a payload to a different velocity, and so on, until the sum total of all the velocities is the necessary total speed you require to get to orbit.

We're actually fairly close to being able to make single-stage-to-orbit (or SSTO) launchers workable, but it's a difficult problem. We can just about make a single stage with a high enough mass fraction to do it, but then there is almost no payload remaining. And the only way to make a vehicle with such a tiny payload cost effective would be to make it reusable, but enabling reusability would add additional weight which would destroy any payload whatsoever and probably prevent it from even reaching orbit, catch-22. Potentially we could use advanced engines, rocket fuels, and lightweight materials (like carbon fiber) to build a reusable SSTO which would have a reasonable payload, but such designs are hugely untested and very risky. So for now the best hope for reusability seems to be to incrementally advance the design of existing multi-stage rockets.

Re: SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High

#119
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

".from SpaceX’s hexacopter." They have all the nicest toys!

Even buying something off the shelf, that's not an absurdly expensive 'toy' ( If you build it yourself, you could put together a video platform like that for under $1k (including the gyro stabilized camera gimbal).

That's what I was thinking... certainly much cheaper than chartering a helicopter.

Re: SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High

#120

For those of you who haven't seen it, here is SpaceX's fantastic animation of their ultimate goal for Falcon 9 (complete with soundtrack by Muse): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWFFiubtC3c This will give you an idea of how grasshopper fits into the full flight plan.

How does the first stage not get damaged by the backblast from the second stage seperating?
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