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_why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

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Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#111
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> _why was the first person to actually create art around and about software. That's complete rubbish. But it probably is correct that he was the first person that created art around and about software that you are aware of.

[OP here, figured it might be helpful to actually create an account...] In that case, could you please name a few artists that you believe did exactly that? I'm honestly interested in finding more of such art. But before you do, let me rephrase what I wrote above, because it's easy to misunderstand one short sentence (and I'm definitely guilty of not explaining very well what I mean): When I talk about art around and…

The Perl community has always had a large artist component. Perl Golf is an artistic endeavor. Perl Poetry is a real thing.

The UNIX community has a similar artistic component. It's built into the genes of the thing, really. There is humor, beauty, politics, and more, in the UNIX tradition. The free unices, in particular, have always been about a love of the process and a celebration of human expression.

_why took it in a highly original direction. No argument from me on that. I think _why was/is/always shall be awesome. But, it's not the first time someone used code as art, directly and without intermediary forms.

What makes _why special, perhaps, is that he made it impossible to miss the art. The art was not subtle, it was not for coders only, and it was cognizant of the knowledge gap that makes so many people fearful of code and unaware of the art contained therein.

_why's totally cool and stuff (and bold, and visionary, and very likable). But, let's not get hyperbolic about his place in the pantheon of code and beauty.

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, that's simply not the modern understanding of what art is and how it works. Text books, no matter how relevant they may be to your experience, are different from novels. And it's precisely because Jim wouldn't call it art that it isn't.

> Text books, no matter how relevant they may be to your experience, are different from novels. And it's precisely because Jim wouldn't call it art that it isn't. I firmly assert this is wrong. You firmly assert contrary. Let's leave it at that. Further discussion is useless.

You assert that text books are no different from novels? That's absurd.

(If your assertion is that text books are, in fact, art, then I agree with you. But they're a very different sort of art from the sort that _why was creating – starting from the fact that the Poignant Guide is a work of fiction, and most textbooks are not.)

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jim sought to increase understanding. _why seems not to have given too many shits about that pursuit. You're right, Jim is better at didactic work than _why is. This doesn't mean the thing he did at rubyconf back in those early days when less than 50 people were there was any less performance art. Jim didn't have postmodernist fox banter, and he's probably too humble to call what he does "an art." But that's okay,…

Unfortunately, that's simply not the modern understanding of what art is and how it works. Text books, no matter how relevant they may be to your experience, are different from novels. And it's precisely because Jim wouldn't call it art that it isn't.

I'd call that a postmodern understanding of art, and one originating from just one particular sect of postmodernism at that. There's a lot of postmodernists who would say that the artist's intentions in creating the work are secondary, or even irrelevant. (A lot of others who would say it too.)

The world of art is filled with warring philosophies just like everywhere else and you can't pretending that your preferred definition of 'art' is 'the one, the true, the only'. (Well, you can. Just anyone who adheres to a different philosophy of aesthetics won't take you too seriously.)

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#114
It may be my own feelings and so forth, but I vote that comments are disabled on this network.

It's getting way out of control, quality of the network exponentially deteriorating, and far too much blatant disrespect without regard, perpetuating the same cycles of melancholia for any of those individuals who are genuinely interested in understanding.

For those who feel the need to be correct, the need to correct, the need to justify, the need to express their own opinions on behalf of the though of an other, for those who have yet to understand that they as themselves are not the constitution of thought of all of those who are an other independent of the self, for those who simply cannot simply recognize any/all realizations, for those who require conclusions, for those who wish to change the order of the world, for those who cannot be bothered with interaction that may oppose their own desire, etc., please leave this network. Please. I beg of you to leave. I beg of you to leave and return when you've lost the ability to use express your opinion in the forefront of others, when you've come to understand that every interact between your self and an other affects the experience and understanding of others, when you've come to understand, when you've learned to listen, when you've learned to reason, when you've learned your own language, when you've learned your own self, and finally, when you've learned an other relatively independent of others in relation to your selves.

The amount of hatred in the world is enough to drive anyone insane, why bring it to a network full of though-thirsty individuals who simply wish to share other understands?

I may be delusional in my expression of cordiality, though I only wish that this madness stops.

Why I have even bothered to make an account to share my own realization? The network is unique in its own right, and very difficult to find such a large group of like-minds. The more I visit, the further such ideals deviate from the truth, and it's disturbing. Quite a lot of this is clearly addressed in _why's seemingly random queue, but that's not the point. The point is [TL;DR;DC;WC;] Your opinions are going to change. If they don't, you're likely cheating yourself, and respectively others. Please find it in your minds to enjoy the thought of one another.

----

For those of you on your high-horse of supreme divinity and fortitude, I sincerely hope you come find your self humbled by your self.

Kind regards,

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#115

It is easy to see _why as "the crazy ruby guy who wrote some scripts and created all this drama around his persona". Even though _why did indeed write some (very useful) programs, I think this view of him misses the point and probably explains why so many people seem to be puzzled by his newest endeavour. Yes, he wrote some Ruby code, but the code was his least important contribution. _why was the first person to act…

Thank you!

The amount of people who hate on _why around here for silly reasons is absurd. I often see people judge him by the standards you would use to judge an engineer (by which he fails miserably), but the correct standards are those you would judge an artist (by which he succeeds admirably).

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Text books, no matter how relevant they may be to your experience, are different from novels. And it's precisely because Jim wouldn't call it art that it isn't. I firmly assert this is wrong. You firmly assert contrary. Let's leave it at that. Further discussion is useless.

You assert that text books are no different from novels? That's absurd. (If your assertion is that text books are, in fact, art, then I agree with you. But they're a very different sort of art from the sort that _why was creating – starting from the fact that the Poignant Guide is a work of fiction, and most textbooks are not.)

> You assert that text books are no different from novels? That's absurd.

No. I assert that a textbook could be art and that art could be a textbook. Transitively, though. This is outside the scope of the original discussion.

People here are frantic to give _why credit for doing something unique, and he did. But he was unique in his specifics. The general pattern has been repeated many times.

People seem to think that me saying, "Lot's of people have done things in the same category as what _why has done, before _why did it," is controversial. It isn't and shouldn't be. _why can be a unique snowflake, highly significant to you, and not be some sort of genesis for a new type of art previous undreamed by human minds.

I mean, seriously, how is what _why did any different from http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/ten-thousand.htm... ? Which has been growing since before many people on this website were born and will continue to do so after many of us are gone.

And Corey Doctorow probably has a few things to say about the idea that Novels cannot be textbooks for specific subjects. Little Brother had a lot of very specific detail on reproducible physical hacks people could do in their day-to-day lives for privacy purposes!

And the method of using a work of fiction as a teaching tool? Ancient.

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#117
I really don't understand the uproar and significance here.

I read through the book because I figured there'd be something insightful, interesting, or explanatory in there. There basically isn't. If it's just supposed to be art -- some kind of odd, disjointed story for its own sake -- then at least that's something, even if I didn't really care much for it.

I do like some of the presentation. The print queue thing is clever, and the variety of scans/handwriting/printing in the work, where it's not a hindrance to reading, is fun (I can see that the hindrance is part of the work, but it still comes off as obnoxious to me).

Still, it leaves me wondering: Why do people care about this? It's some guy that believed he wasn't a good programmer, stopped programming, went AWOL from the internet, was happy about it, and then apparently wrote some sort of strange fiction. OK, whatever floats your boat, but usually these fads pass. This one just won't go away, even though going away is exactly what the author did (or, arguably, is continuously failing to do).

Do those of you getting high on this see it as some kind of existential statement or puzzle? I think way too much is being read into the whole thing.

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#118
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific about what seemed wrong to you about the culture surrounding ruby? I'm curious.

I can try to explain my impression, which is quite similar, only, in my case, wasn't strong enough to drive me away from Ruby. I started reading Poignant Guide with the aim of improving my Ruby knowledge (I started with Pickaxe and was quite satisfied with it), and learning Ruby idioms and philosophy better. Instead, I found a cryptic artsy graphic novel full of absurd humour, cultural references and so on. I found i…

I wouldn't put it as in a negative way as you did when you say you feel stupid and inferior for not being an english native speaker, but I can feel you. It's one of those moment you say to yourself: hey, I've always been better than any non native local english speaker, now how is that I get only 1 sentence out of 4? And you feel jealous of those who are "gifted" to be english native speakers. you eventually end up wishing for a translated version.. so why not taking the occasion to ask if someone would be interested in doing that? Of course I can't tell you what language I'd like it to be translated in, because it'd be a step further in destroying my anonimity ;) Well, it wouldn't matter anyway, because I am sure it would be translated in other languages too afterward, and my language would certainly be covered.. wouldn't it? We should poll and check how many and which would be the more requested languages.. as a start? So yea, hope someone catches this up...

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#119

It is easy to see _why as "the crazy ruby guy who wrote some scripts and created all this drama around his persona". Even though _why did indeed write some (very useful) programs, I think this view of him misses the point and probably explains why so many people seem to be puzzled by his newest endeavour. Yes, he wrote some Ruby code, but the code was his least important contribution. _why was the first person to act…

http://whytheluckystiff.net/

Free combs on his website, apparently...

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#120
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific about what seemed wrong to you about the culture surrounding ruby? I'm curious.

I can try to explain my impression, which is quite similar, only, in my case, wasn't strong enough to drive me away from Ruby. I started reading Poignant Guide with the aim of improving my Ruby knowledge (I started with Pickaxe and was quite satisfied with it), and learning Ruby idioms and philosophy better. Instead, I found a cryptic artsy graphic novel full of absurd humour, cultural references and so on. I found i…

I wouldn't put it as in a negative way as you did when you say you feel stupid and inferior for not being an english native speaker, but I can feel you. It's one of those moment you say to yourself: hey, I've always been better than any non native local english speaker, now how is that I get only 1 sentence out of 4? And you feel jealous of those who are "gifted" to be english native speakers. you eventually end up wishing for a translated version.. so why not taking the occasion to ask if someone would be interested in doing that? Of course I can't tell you what language I'd like it to be translated in, because it'd be a step further in destroying my anonimity ;) Well, it wouldn't matter anyway, because I am sure it would be translated in other languages too afterward, and my language would certainly be covered.. wouldn't it? We should poll and check how many and which would be the more requested languages.. as a start? So yea, hope someone catches this up...
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