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I hired someone with Asperger's – now what?

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Re: I hired someone with Asperger's – now what?

#111

Post by tfb »

city41 wrote: post #103
tfb wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really hit the nail on the head here and said exactly what I (and probably others here) have been thinking. As much as it's a very humanly thing to do, I think it's ridiculous to try to lump people into categories, especially when the differences are so minute that it's almost as if there's one way that people should be, and if someone doesn't fit that mold exactly, they must be classified as different. This lead…

It's really not like that though. People with Asperger Syndrome behave and act very different from "normal" people. It's not simply a different personality, an introversion preference or anything like that, they genuinely have a very different brain.

It really is like that though. Most people genuinely do have quite different brains from each other, regardless of whether or not they fall within the autistic spectrum; but that's not reason enough to label them based on some common ground so that people who happen to fall within the majority can have some way to differentiate themselves and explicitly think, "That guy is abnormal because his brain doesn't focus on the all same things mine does."

And I chose the word abnormal because it sometimes has negative connotations and probably best represents the way most people think, i.e., afraid of what they're unfamiliar with. But imagine if the Asperger brain was actually the norm. Would that mean we should label people whose brains focus more on social interaction and reproduction than rules and solving problems?

Maybe I'm just uneducated and the label already exists, but sometimes I feel like we should put some specific label on "normal brained" people (other than the word normal or "neurotypical") to kind of even out the stigma. Perhaps my point of view is distorted but when I see people categorized like they are with Asperger Syndrome, I always get the sense that "normal" people look and treat them like they're aliens or like they're retarded or it's almost as if they're lab rats in some scientific study, all because of the "Asperger Syndrome" label... or even worse now, "Autistic Spectrum Disorder".

Re: I hired someone with Asperger's – now what?

#112

Post by lutusp »

If the consequences weren't so tragic, I would laugh out loud at all this about Asperger's. Consider the following points:

1. Human evolution is still going on, and in the long term, Asperger's might represent a positive evolutionary adaptation, especially in a world increasingly dependent on technology. Only nature knows, and nature doesn't reveal her secrets willingly.

2 After a recent epidemic of overdiagnoses, psychologists are reluctantly abandoning the Asperger's diagnosis -- it's being removed from the DSM. The reason? Too many people wanted the diagnosis -- it was the first truly fashionable mental illness. After all, Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, and Bill Gates are/were thought to have this "disease".

3. There is a positive psychological trait called "Grit":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grit_(personality_trait)

People who have "grit" tend to focus on a few objectives, or just one, for months or years. It's a "good thing™" -- psychologists say so. But the exact same behavior can lead to an Asperger's diagnosis. Have psychologists resolved this contradiction? Not remotely.

As far as I'm concerned, and in the opinion of an increasing number of psychologists, Asperger's refers to something real, but it shouldn't have been categorized as a mental illness -- unless intelligence should also be listed.

If psychology was a science this might all be different, but there's little hope for that.

More on this topic: http://arachnoid.com/building_science

Re: I hired someone with Asperger's – now what?

#113

Post by ludston »

ambiate wrote: post #89
fyi80 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "gratitude, on any medium, is still gratitude, this is a difference of culture, but to disregard my sentiment is to deny my humanity, not just my culture." And some people prefer to be compensated in dollars, not bitcoins. Giving is about giving something that the recipient will enjoy, not about what the giver wants. Gratitude is such a gift.

If I give gratitude, then, you demand a separate kind because it does not suit your tastes seems more rude than my ignorance of what you initially wanted in exchange. The example of currency follows a completely different set of rules than gratitude of the 'thank you' nature for me. I suppose I am not one to judge what is(n't) rude.

This is straw man fallacy because they have not demanded gratitude. They have been given a gift that they do not understand or value, then you've expected them to return their own gratitude.

Re: I hired someone with Asperger's – now what?

#114

Post by gatlin »

xibernetik wrote: post #98
davidp wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amplifying your different-not-worse theme: I sometimes wonder whether the human species would be better off if everyone had a strong case of what we call Asperger's. So many tribal/cultural conflicts arise because of people's ability to connect strongly... Consider religious zealoutry and jihad, and other culturally-derived sources of conflict. Our ability and willingness to be led (at a scope unique in the animal ki…

Asperger's manifests very differently depending on the individual, and does not necessarily block the ability to connect strongly. On average, it may be more difficult for an individual with Asperger's to connect strongly because they are not in tune with the majority of the population, but that's more a function of having trouble finding like-minded individuals than of not being able to connect. The idea that Aspie…

Based on my limited interactions with people diagnosed on the spectrum, I agree that any notion that such individuals are inherently "more logical" is incorrect and unrepresentative.

Whether a person is logical or not is orthogonal to their position on the autism spectrum. It is useful to delineate between "logic" and "reason" here: reason is arriving at appropriate conclusions given the state of the world, and logic is the means by which we accomplish this. Using logic relies entirely on the premises chosen and assumptions made, which is where the "human element" comes into play. Many people, regardless of psychiatric diagnosis, are quite adept at cherry-picking premises such that, through careful selective ignorance, they arrive at pre-determined conclusions.

So if I had to make a very politically incorrect and anecdotal hypothetical assertion, I'd say that in my experience people on the autism spectrum indeed are more rigorously "logical" but they can also be correspondingly irrational; where someone not on the spectrum might be fine with a few measures of cognitive dissonance, someone on the spectrum might construct a labyrinthine fortress of logic to prevent any sort of uncomfortable or distasteful conclusions, and to reassure themselves that the world conforms to their notions of justice.

This is neither good nor bad, or any kind of judgment. Just supporting the parent comment with anecdata.

Re: I hired someone with Asperger's – now what?

#115

Post by lnanek2 »

Reminds me of working at Noom. The management were complete crooks. They'd lie in job ads and justify it by saying they get more people to apply, agree to things in public company wide meetings then quash them in private when it didn't look as bad, pirate software then toot their PR horn saying if any employee needs any software for their job they'd buy it, frequently forget to pay you or pay too little unless you fought for the right amount, etc.. Very difficult culture for someone who likes logical connection between things and details that all make sense put together.

Re: I hired someone with Asperger's – now what?

#116

Post by pessimizer »

mnicole wrote: post #63
pessimizer wrote: post #30

Asperger's doesn't particularly exist. IIRC it is being removed from the DSM-V; 99.5% of sufferers are self-diagnosed with information that they found on the internet, and sometimes have confirmed with helpful psychiatrists. The criteria seems to be that one has a terrible personality, is simultaneously high-maintenance and inconsiderate of others, thinks very highly of one's self, but lacks any other connection with…

I'm not even sure how to respond to this. For one, there's a distinct difference between Asperger's and High-Functioning Autistics, and while they may have taken it out of the DSM, it doesn't change the fact that these changes in characteristics exist and when diagnosed correctly, can still identify the subset of issues each are facing and how to respond/deal with those issues. Secondly, people forget that autism, as…

The DSM isn't armchair psychology, it surveys accepted professional practice. The rest is just my personal opinion: terrible personality isn't commonly considered a medical diagnosis, so I don't think I need a license.

Re: I hired someone with Asperger's – now what?

#117

Post by pessimizer »

auctiontheory wrote: post #90
pessimizer wrote: post #30

Asperger's doesn't particularly exist. IIRC it is being removed from the DSM-V; 99.5% of sufferers are self-diagnosed with information that they found on the internet, and sometimes have confirmed with helpful psychiatrists. The criteria seems to be that one has a terrible personality, is simultaneously high-maintenance and inconsiderate of others, thinks very highly of one's self, but lacks any other connection with…

> The criteria seems to be that one has a terrible > personality, is simultaneously high-maintenance and > inconsiderate of others, thinks very highly of one's self Speaking of self-diagnosis ...

I'm not high-maintenance!

Re: I hired someone with Asperger's – now what?

#118

Post by olivier1664 »

Dewie wrote: post #84
hjay wrote: post #70

Reading this post makes me wonder if I have Asperger's...it pretty much described me to a tee. Extremely uncomfortable in crowds/parties (actually, I pretty much refuse to attend parties at all), always looking at something else when speaking to someone 1 on 1, "rambling" when describing something or telling a story when someone else would only take 1~2 sentences, speaking my mind and a tendency to avoid small talk,…

If you really are curious, you should go to a psychologist. Self-diagnosis will do no good.

Does there is any interest to diagnosis you are aspie or not? From what I read here, it can be very helpfull for children, but it is not clear for adult people.

Re: I hired someone with Asperger's – now what?

#119

Post by jimmaswell »

DigitalJack wrote: post #58
_p62c wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree more - as another person with Aspbergers I feel that this article tried to fit us in to the broken genius pattern, rather than recognize that these kind of syndromes manifest themselves differently in every person. I am in no way special or helped by my syndrome, I am not difficult to work with, I am not in any way disabled, like normal people I have issues with emotional repression and other peoples…

So...your's is the second or third comment that said something along the lines of "I've been diagnosed with aspergers, but you'd never know." I'm curious, what led you (or your guardians?) to seek out a diagnosis?

For me, I exhibited it very much more in my younger years than I do now. I highly doubt I'd even get the diagnosis if I was looked at again right now.

Re: I hired someone with Asperger's – now what?

#120

Post by jimmaswell »

solistice wrote: post #95
DanBC wrote: post #91

The UK has concepts of "Reasonable adjustments". Some things are intrinsic parts of a job. A taxi driver must be able to drive. An accountant does not need to be able to drive. Thus, you can justifiably not employ someone for a taxi driver if their disability prevents them from driving, but you could not justifiably not employ an accountant if their disability meant they could not drive. > As a manager, you should un…

Honestly, halfway through the article the question popped up on whether I was reading an Article on understanding "Aspies" or whether I was reading an Article on "Aspie"keeping. "Dog's become agressive when stared into the eyes by humans as for Dog's, this signals a fight" vs. "Many people with Asperger's are challenged by large crowds, looking people in the eye and reading common social cues". I don't mean to bash t…

I thought that was just cats, not really dogs. My dogs look me in the eyes all the time.
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