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Donating my Xbox

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Re: Donating my Xbox

#111
post #29
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> God forbid other "bro types" enjoy games too. Being a bro isn't, like, something you're born into. It's a certain mentality, a certain way of approaching the world. And while I like many facets of bro-dom, and enjoy the hell out of sitting down for some Smash with a couple of friends and a six-pack of Yuengling, there are some bothersome things about bro culture which that particular category of game emphasizes. I…

Have you seen Punch-Drunk Love? The thing about that movie is that it takes Sandler's film personality, but abstracts it out from the context of blatant comedy and inserts it into a low-key tragedy, with the skill & taste of an auteur writer/director (Paul Thomas Anderson). It's quite wonderful, and now I'm thinking about what the equivalent for Halo would be. Maybe a game that brings out the tragic aspects of war --…

> Have you seen Punch-Drunk Love?

People who say "Adam Sandler Movie" usually think of movies produced / written by Adam Sandler.

Re: Donating my Xbox

#112
post #29
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> God forbid other "bro types" enjoy games too. Being a bro isn't, like, something you're born into. It's a certain mentality, a certain way of approaching the world. And while I like many facets of bro-dom, and enjoy the hell out of sitting down for some Smash with a couple of friends and a six-pack of Yuengling, there are some bothersome things about bro culture which that particular category of game emphasizes. I…

Have you seen Punch-Drunk Love? The thing about that movie is that it takes Sandler's film personality, but abstracts it out from the context of blatant comedy and inserts it into a low-key tragedy, with the skill & taste of an auteur writer/director (Paul Thomas Anderson). It's quite wonderful, and now I'm thinking about what the equivalent for Halo would be. Maybe a game that brings out the tragic aspects of war --…

Punch-Drunk Love is one of my favorite romantic films! Adam Sandler is a damned talented man, don't get me wrong. That's why I'm even more okay with criticizing his more standard fare. The dude can do better.

I think the key to understanding "how to do the FPS better" is that the first-person model doesn't only have to exist for shooting. It's a very potent set-up because it's "virtual", and limits your perceptions to the scope of the character you're controlling. You could make a game that involves guns but is not strictly a shooter, and therefore has the freedom to give you a certain context into what surrounds your actions.

As much as I love Buddhism in my video games, I feel like your idea might feel too preachy to your average player. But how about this for a set-up? The game starts off as a "sports" shooter game – say, paintball, or something of the sort – and you're a person with a couple bucks and a passion for the game. Ultimately, you get to a point where you're up against people with much better equipment than you, and the game becomes almost a test of masochism: how many times will you try before you give up? But there's a whole other world out there, offering you opportunities to make a quick buck. And whether you pick a live of military service or a life of crime, you're put back into a situation with guns, only now the stakes are infinitely higher. There are no second chances.

A game like that could really play with character development, both by looking at the people who serve along with you, and by making enemies something more than faceless soldiers. Give you the impression, perhaps, that the only people fighting these fights are people who don't have the idle money to play paintball all their lives, and that you're being sent to war against yourself, against people who are pretty much just like you. Except that sometimes, you're fighting for the rich people who want more, and sometimes you're fighting as the underdog, against a group of greedy people who are willing to use violence to get what they want.

Of course, if you're looking to avoid that kind of morality, you can always stick to playing paintball. But you're aware of the fact that even there, you haven't quite escaped from the world as thoroughly as you may have liked...

I know nothing about paintball forgive me

Re: Donating my Xbox

#113
post #58
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen Punch-Drunk Love? The thing about that movie is that it takes Sandler's film personality, but abstracts it out from the context of blatant comedy and inserts it into a low-key tragedy, with the skill & taste of an auteur writer/director (Paul Thomas Anderson). It's quite wonderful, and now I'm thinking about what the equivalent for Halo would be. Maybe a game that brings out the tragic aspects of war --…

One of the things that attracted me to the first Halo series was the humanity of the writing. Halo (especially the first one) never glorified violence in the lore of the game. There is much lamenting the horrifying situation that Master Chief finds himself. This is of course completely lost in multiplayer, but I'm not sure how you can blame bungie for the non-authored parts of the game.

Well, Bungie has some good writers, but the very concept of the game they created is inherently xenophobic. You're pitted against an Other who exists only for you to kill. Eventually, you are allowed to see that this Other is more complex than that, and therefore maybe not worth killing unnecessarily, but now you have a new Other to mindlessly kill, and there's not a whole lot of awareness that there's an irony to the change.

The story of a game is told through gameplay, not through cut scenes in between. The gameplay of Halo is, "kill these things". Not much more complicated than that. The writing can self-pity itself as much as it would like, but the fact remains that Bungie created a game in which there is only one possible course of action, and that is to kill. That multiplayer is such an aggressive shitpile, legendarily so in Halo's case, only goes to show that beneath the facade of "story" in Halo, there is pretty much just "shoot things and feel like a badass for doing so, or else get pissed off that somebody is better at shooting you than you are for them."

Jonathan Blow, who's a brilliant game developer in his own right, gave a lecture in 2008 about exactly this sort of dissonance between storytelling and gameplay. He does a great job pointing out that even the best titles in gaming, like Grand Theft Auto and Half-Life, do a poor job of aligning in-game story with the actual play. It's long, but if this is a subject that interests you, then it's absolutely worth giving a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGTV8qLbBWE. (Whilst studying this subject for my undergraduate thesis, I also took notes on this whole lecture, so if you're feeling lazy I could upload them for you; let me know if you'd like that!)

Re: Donating my Xbox

#114
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wolfenstein and Doom were simple, playful, colorful. You were in middle school when Halo came out, so I can be fairly certain you were too young to remember Wolfenstein and Doom being released. And you're completely wrong. Those games were not simple and playful and colorful. They were gory, and violent, and brutal and complex. I had to play them when my parents weren't paying attention because of the excessive gor…

I totally agree with you. I think the OPs objections is that older games don't look grittier, but these days they don't because it's hard to look past just how bad the graphics are by todays standards. However back when they were released, Wolf3d and Doom had my heart racing and even made me jump -frequently- because picking up a red key opened a secret room filled with hell demon. Doom and Doom 2 were terrifying at…

You know what, it's totally possible! I've studied games from a critical perspective, but never a historical one; while my criticisms of Xbox's marketing make sense from the games that I know, it may be that I have completely misinterpreted what the games that game before it were like. Age is a factor when we're talking about the change of games over time.

I still think that there's been an unfortunate shift in games over the last decade or so, and that Halo exists along the spectrum of that shift. This guy's essay made a lot of sense in the context of what criticisms I have of games in general, but I might be giving it more credit than it's worth. Sorry for being so annoyingly wrong about things; I'll try to understand this better for future discussions!

Re: Donating my Xbox

#115
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wolfenstein and Doom were simple, playful, colorful. Even as game devices became more powerful, there was a playfulness to FPSes that you can see in titles like Perfect Dark and the Unreal series. One of Halo's major innovations was that it removed the health bar. In a shooter like Doom or Goldeneye, you have let's say 100 HP, and different weapons deal a different amount of damage. It's just like any fighting game w…

> Wolfenstein and Doom were simple, playful, colorful. You were in middle school when Halo came out, so I can be fairly certain you were too young to remember Wolfenstein and Doom being released. And you're completely wrong. Those games were not simple and playful and colorful. They were gory, and violent, and brutal and complex. I had to play them when my parents weren't paying attention because of the excessive gor…

to remember Wolfenstein and Doom being released. And you're completely wrong. Those games were not simple and playful and colorful. They were gory, and violent, and brutal and complex. I had to play them when my parents weren't paying attention because of the excessive gore and satanic overtones.

I was early 20's when Wolf 3D came out. It was shockingly graphic, but like everyone else at work I played it all the way through.

Doom on the other hand... just too gory and satanic. No thanks.

Fast forward to the present, I've played all the Halos. They're completely mainstream and not very gory.

Currently playing Borderlands 2. I dislike the constant theme of sadism and torture, but it's fun game and I manage to get past it.

I bought an Xbox magazine the other day. Literally 80%+ of the games involved shooting rotting-corpse zombies. I really don't get why people like that stuff.

Re: Donating my Xbox

#116
post #79
post #15

When I was a kid I hated the Xbox, hated Halo, and hated how it seemed to create a new model for playing games. It was released when I was in middle school, and I remember there being a sudden and abrupt shift in what kind of gaming mentality there was. Prior to the Xbox, console games were largely focused on lush, whimsical landscapes with mechanics that required some puzzling to figure out. At least, the games that…

Not to negate your main point, but: > Halo opened the door for Tom Clancy games, The first Rainbow Six game predated Halo by three years (and the announcement of the XBox itself by two years) and though it started as a PC title, it was released for all the consoles of the time, including the Nintendo 64. You could argue that Tom Clancy games paved the way for Halo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_Rainbow_…

To be fair though, the games have changed in the Post-Halo world dramatically. The original Rainbow Six was actually our main LAN party game because it was so brutal, slow and tactical. We literally split up teams into different parts of the house with whiteboards to map out stuff. It was awesome.

Re: Donating my Xbox

#117
post #97
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile games are a very different niche, as are flash games. LittleBigPlanet is defintely a counter-example (for PS3), but there aren't too many others.

How are mobile games niche? Angry Bird has 1 billion downloads.

He said a 'different niche'.

But I think you a very valid question of if (or when) total computer game playtime will be (already is) so dominated by mobile and browser-based games that PCs and consoles are the actual niches.

If you look at all the major studios that have been wading into mobile and social, it's pretty clear the industry has been thinking about this for a long time now.

Re: Donating my Xbox

#118
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When Halo came out"? As opposed to the endless steam of first person shooters that came before it that were even more straightforward, simplistic, and violence-driven? Blaming Microsoft for this is insane. There is virtually no difference between Wolfenstein and Doom on the one hand, and Halo and Gears of War on the other - except for better graphics. If you think this is a trend of the past decade, then you either…

Wolfenstein and Doom were simple, playful, colorful. Even as game devices became more powerful, there was a playfulness to FPSes that you can see in titles like Perfect Dark and the Unreal series. One of Halo's major innovations was that it removed the health bar. In a shooter like Doom or Goldeneye, you have let's say 100 HP, and different weapons deal a different amount of damage. It's just like any fighting game w…

The original Halo had a health bar.

Re: Donating my Xbox

#119

I sympathize a lot with what was written. I grew up on the Nintendo consoles (my father got an NES from my mom for their first anniversary, which was less than a year before I was born). I really enjoyed playing games straight through my N64 I had as a young teen. But games after that lost a lot of appeal. At the time I thought it was because I was growing up and just wasn't into it any more. Sure, I used to think sp…

Check out Bastion, Recettear, and Magicka. All three are unique in their own ways, and are great experiences. Based on the things you've enjoyed, you might like them, as well.

Bastion's easily the best of those three, and while the gameplay is relatively simple, the narration style is something to be cherished. It's beautifully done, and is great fun to watch.

Recettear is an odd entry - it's a game about being an item shop owner in a cliche JRPG. It sounds stupid, but it's ridiculously engaging, and the writing it genuinely funny.

Magicka is kind of like combining a combo-driven fighting game with an old-school game like Gauntlet. It's very clever, and is likewise very funny.

Re: Donating my Xbox

#120
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When Halo came out"? As opposed to the endless steam of first person shooters that came before it that were even more straightforward, simplistic, and violence-driven? Blaming Microsoft for this is insane. There is virtually no difference between Wolfenstein and Doom on the one hand, and Halo and Gears of War on the other - except for better graphics. If you think this is a trend of the past decade, then you either…

Wolfenstein and Doom were simple, playful, colorful. Even as game devices became more powerful, there was a playfulness to FPSes that you can see in titles like Perfect Dark and the Unreal series. One of Halo's major innovations was that it removed the health bar. In a shooter like Doom or Goldeneye, you have let's say 100 HP, and different weapons deal a different amount of damage. It's just like any fighting game w…

I used to feel terrified when I played Wolfenstein as a kid, definitely not simply playful.
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