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$10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

pycon.blogspot.com

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Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#111

Post by MartinCron »

martythemaniak wrote: post #62
amix wrote: post #44

PyCon had 500 women out of 2500 attendance. Gave away over $100,000 in financial aid. Gave away 2500 Raspberry Pi's. Thought kids to code. Raised $10,000 for the PyLadies. Gave permission to publish amazing online videos etc. And then you have these 3 idiots (and more online idiots) that steal the spotlight and everybody focuses on them. Sigh. Let's focus on the positive stuff!

Apparently sharing a joke with a friend now qualifies you as an "idiot".

There was a time, not all that long ago, when you could smoke cigarettes at your desk in a professional office context. Now, out of respect for the comfort of others in a shared environment, the general consensus is that you should take that toxic shit outside where we don't all have to endure it.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#112

Post by king_jester »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #87
steveklabnik wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the front page of http://www.pyladies.com/ : > Anyone with an interest in Python is encouraged to participate! You're making an unfounded assumption that PyLadies is women only.

Fine, so what if I created something with the goal of: > We are an international mentorship group with a focus on helping more men become active participants and leaders in the Python open-source community. How do you think that would go down?

Nobody in tech would bat an eye, although I would find it a bit ridiculous to try and get more men to be active in the Python community when the majority of the python community is men.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#113

Post by pekk »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #76
pekk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my knowledge, PyLadies has not engaged in discrimination. It isn't discrimination to make groups which encourage minorities to code or get involved in the Python community or whatever. Men are not being hurt by the existence of PyLadies in any way.

So if I set up a "boys only" tech club or society, people wouldn't be screaming bloody murder, calling me sexist, and claiming that I was trying to keep women out of tech' and or reinforcing the glass ceiling? Because frankly, I cannot see that going down well at all...

I wouldn't be screaming. I love to see Python groups. KKKPython might have trouble getting funding from PSF, but nobody should care if you want to get together to talk about Clojure only with gay dentists.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#114

Post by mnicole »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #96
pekk wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know anything about PyLadies? What led you to believe that PyLadies is about "virulent feminism" or is masterminding provocations?

Maybe he knows what Lynn Root did at last year's EuroPython[1][2] or how she complains about being only asked to talk about women issues[3] but when she got a spot in the lightning talk section she canceled it blaming the last day's "drama"[4]. [1] http://www.roguelynn.com/words/really/ [2] http://www.roguelynn.com/words/a-memorable-europython-for-th... [3] http://www.roguelynn.com/words/my-un-talk-at-djangocon/ [4]…

ITT: We bust an organization's balls because of what someone not even in it did and then focus on one woman actually in the group to diminish the good intentions of the entire thing.

Newsflash: you can't make judgement calls on entire groups because of a single person.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#115

Post by pifflesnort »

king_jester wrote: post #107
pifflesnort wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a rhetorical device, intended to use an emotional argument ("hatred, rage, vulgar insults and detailed threads of rape, bodily harm, and murder!!!") to justify totally unrelated behavior of public naming and shaming for a mild offense. This is exactly the sort of virulent emotionally-driven argumentative behavior that I don't want to have become a standard fixture in the technology community. Issues like this…

> This is a rhetorical device, intended to use an emotional argument ("hatred, rage, vulgar insults and detailed threads of rape, bodily harm, and murder!!!") to justify totally unrelated behavior of public naming and shaming for a mild offense. I do not agree that public naming and shaming is unrelated to this incident. You have to keep in mind that it is not unreasonable to see the penis jokes as a sexist microaggr…

'Microaggression' is, in this context, simply being misused as another device to justify disproportionate behavior. You've done further rhetorical gymnastics to tie together immature 'dongle' jokes with sexual and racial violence, ultimately with the seeming intent of redefining the entire event to absolve one party of their responsibility to act with maturity and responsibility, solely in furtherance of a culturally damaging, distracting, and virulent ideology.

Olivia Wilde also received some similarly horrid threats after insulting Justin Bieber on Twitter, but I can only hope and assume that you won't be attempting to tie that event to sexism in technology, and instead recognize that it reflects a real, but very different problem.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#116

Post by pekk »

lmickh wrote: post #79
pekk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my knowledge, PyLadies has not engaged in discrimination. It isn't discrimination to make groups which encourage minorities to code or get involved in the Python community or whatever. Men are not being hurt by the existence of PyLadies in any way.

Whether or not it hurts men has nothing to do with discrimination. If the group does not allow men to join or benefit from it's opportunities, it is discrimination. The question is whether or not PyLadies allows men to join as full members. I honestly have no clue. I'm sure it would be easy to see it that way since it is described as a group of women. Now the question of whether all discrimination is bad is much more…

Thought experiment: what about Saudi women who want to learn Python? Starting a Python group for women only would be a legal necessity to serve those women in Saudi Arabia. It would not be discrimination at all.

Now suppose we are in London, and there are women who want to learn Python but due to religion or upbringing would not be comfortable in mixed company.

Neither of these cases is "discrimination" against anyone. It's not any kind of aggression at all.

It's also not discrimination when there are women who feel intimidated by the main groups and want a group that is more explicitly friendly to women.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#117

Post by AgathaTheWitch »

steveklabnik wrote: post #83
AgathaTheWitch wrote: post #55

I respect their intentions and I am sure they are doing good work. Regardless as a matter of principle I do not donate to organizations that discriminate on the basis of sex.

Good thing PyLadies doesn't, then! I'm sure they look forward to your support. > Anyone with an interest in Python is encouraged to participate! > > http://www.pyladies.com/

"We are an international mentorship group with a focus on helping more women become active participants and leaders in the Python open-source community."

"PyLadies also aims to provide a friendly support network for women"

"Anyone with an interest in Python is encouraged to participate," toward the goals described above. The goals described above are discriminatory in a way with which I do not agree, hence my lack of support.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#118

Post by dougnap »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #108
dougnap wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to how the Young Men's Christian Association (YMCA) went down, I would imagine... Or are you arguing that all organizations that have a focus on expanding the role of a minority in a community that are inclusive to all in that community should be shut down because you believe some people would complain about having one focused on the majority? That is some twisted and messed up logic there. http://wearebit.co…

I think organisations have good intentions (reduce racism, sexism, etc) but in general unless they're very careful with their message they can do more harm than good. They try to raise women up but often times manage to do so in such a way (special treatment, privilege) which eats away at the respectability of not only the women they're trying to raise up but other women who got there on their own merits. I think we…

So.... there is no problem then. The PyLadies are exactly the type of organization that you support. No special treatment, no privilege. As a male member of the PyLadies I thank you for your support!

Please consider coming by one of the events!

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#119

Post by lmickh »

trolley wrote: post #106
lmickh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not it hurts men has nothing to do with discrimination. If the group does not allow men to join or benefit from it's opportunities, it is discrimination. The question is whether or not PyLadies allows men to join as full members. I honestly have no clue. I'm sure it would be easy to see it that way since it is described as a group of women. Now the question of whether all discrimination is bad is much more…

> The question is whether or not PyLadies allows men to join as full members. What exactly are you looking for? PyLadies is not a dues-paying organization. There's no screening process or special clubhouse. Local PyLadies groups organize events (like hackathons, workshops, or happy hours) and people show up. Nobody stands at the door and checks your secret decoder ring to see if you're allowed in or not. This line fr…

I'm not looking for anything. Just defining how one might determine if PyLadies was actually discriminating instead of just making claims that were unrelated to discrimination.

Even admitted that I don't how they work. Reading their page and seeing them in action are two very different things. I have not had any direct interaction and therefor made no judgement of them. If they are in fact that open then they are not discriminating.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#120

Post by taligent »

lmickh wrote: post #79
pekk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my knowledge, PyLadies has not engaged in discrimination. It isn't discrimination to make groups which encourage minorities to code or get involved in the Python community or whatever. Men are not being hurt by the existence of PyLadies in any way.

Whether or not it hurts men has nothing to do with discrimination. If the group does not allow men to join or benefit from it's opportunities, it is discrimination. The question is whether or not PyLadies allows men to join as full members. I honestly have no clue. I'm sure it would be easy to see it that way since it is described as a group of women. Now the question of whether all discrimination is bad is much more…

This is a group with a noble cause trying to increase the frankly disgraceful percentage of women in technology. And you label them as discriminatory ?

I take it you also oppose cancer groups then.

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