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A Difficult Situation

blog.sendgrid.com

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Re: A Difficult Situation

#111

Post by MartinCron »

GhotiFish wrote: post #103
nilkn wrote: post #26

Even if I agree with the decision, this is incredibly hard to read. I hate to see someone lose their job over something like this. Yet I can't disagree with anything he wrote. I personally hope she will learn from this and another company will give her a new chance. The odds of that are slim given how big this has become--it's front-paging repeatedly on HN and /r/programming. But I'd hate to see her whole career ruin…

Yah. One common factor in everybody involved is that they're incredibly human. Pride, self-righteousness, and immaturity are a few of the qualities on display, but since they're human I accept that a few of these qualities are tolerable, as should we all. No one committed any action that was overtly horrible on it's own. In a vacuum: Two guys were making childish jokes, and a woman was offended and told her friends a…

No one committed any action that was overtly horrible on its own

That's the remarkable thing about this whole mess. Lots of people are making what appear to be bad choices, but only mildly bad choices. Nobody needed to be crucified here.

Until you get into the whole DDOS and threats of violence business, those are truly bad choices.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#114

Post by enjo »

skylan_q wrote: post #80

Where have all the grown-ups gone? What ever happened to those people who didn't have to make a scene of things that should have just been ignored?

This was never about decency. I don't really believe that this was even about being offended. For people who make their living in social media, that follower count is the most important currency. Adria most definitely fits that mold, and any case where she can stir up controversy and increase that follower count is huge for her.

I think that's all this was. She has a history of grandstanding, all in an effort to drive more visitors to her blog and to follow her on Twitter. It resulted in her being hired by Sendgrid in the first place. This was just another page out of the same playbook. At one point she compared herself to Joan of Arc for crying out loud. Surely she doen't believe that?

So this isn't about decency, it's about attention. Sometimes you win these, and sometimes you lose. It all depends on if you can get the mob on your side or not.

Hell compare this to Alexandria Goddard, who stirred up the mob in the Stuebenville rape case. She's been lauded as a hero, for riling people up over a case in which the police had ALREADY ARRESTED THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE. She cried out for justice, in the shrillest way possible, and the mob descended on the town. These kids were going to end up in jail regardless, but nothing like a good old fashioned internet lynch mob to make it better.

Oh ya, and the blogger gets a bunch of new followers and readers while she's at it.

Again, not about decency or sense (in the Stuebenville case I feel like those kids deserved a fair trial before we threw them under the bus). It's about hurting others to advance yourself. It's a rather sickening tendency that the Internet has made far too profitable. Worse yet, I fear there is a whole generation coming up that doesn't know the difference.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#115

Post by arrrg »

midge1b wrote: post #92
arrrg wrote: post #68

So she was actually fired because of the DDoS: “In the end, the consequences that resulted from how she reported the conduct put our business in danger. Our commitment to our 130 employees, their families, our community members and our more than 130,000 valued customers is our primary concern.” Firing someone because of the criminal activity of someone else seems very weird. At least he is opening himself up to that…

No, she was fired because "she can no longer be effective in her role at SendGrid". Which makes sense, considering her role was to strengthen developer relations...

I do not disagree with you that the statement also named that as a reason for firing her.

All I’m saying that if the DDoS played any part in their decision to fire her, then that part of the justification for their decision represents immoral cowardice to me.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#116

Post by twampss »

chimeracoder wrote: post #33
gallerytungsten wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree it's eminently reasonable, it can sometimes take a day or two to work through a thorny issue, regain a sense of calm, and write something reasonable.

In the past, I've tended to follow a '48-hour rule' when it comes to responding to emotionally-heated emails. Yes, 48 hours can seem like an eternity in the tech world, but it prevents accidentally exacerbating the situation by acting with good intentions yet without a clear head. This isn't even taking into account how long it takes to check with HR, legal, etc. All of which were probably necessary here.

+1 and well said. When I had legal issues with a client irrationally withholding payment, my lawyer suggested to wait four days to respond. Seems like an eternity, especially considering it's double from what you tend to follow (48 hours), it's amazing how much more reasonable your response can be juxtaposed to responding immediately.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#117

Post by [deleted] »

mtrimpe wrote: post #106
mathrawka wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that it is the most reasonable statement because he took time to look over the entire situation and gauge it properly.

Unlike when he very publicly fired an employee in the heat of the moment after his company was being DDoS'ed. I think the fact that Paul Graham, after applying Occam's razor, preferred to think it was done from a compromised account speaks volumes here.

[deleted]

Re: A Difficult Situation

#118

Post by dbecker »

nilkn wrote: post #26

Even if I agree with the decision, this is incredibly hard to read. I hate to see someone lose their job over something like this. Yet I can't disagree with anything he wrote. I personally hope she will learn from this and another company will give her a new chance. The odds of that are slim given how big this has become--it's front-paging repeatedly on HN and /r/programming. But I'd hate to see her whole career ruin…

I think her odds of getting a new job quickly are good.

There are thousands out there vehemently supporting her. She only needs to find one to offer her a job.

Thought of another way, her name has become a cause. Many love the cause, many hate it. But that cause has enough support that you could run a profitable business just serving a fraction of her devotees.

Re: A Difficult Situation

#120

Post by Yver »

mtrimpe wrote: post #106
mathrawka wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that it is the most reasonable statement because he took time to look over the entire situation and gauge it properly.

Unlike when he very publicly fired an employee in the heat of the moment after his company was being DDoS'ed. I think the fact that Paul Graham, after applying Occam's razor, preferred to think it was done from a compromised account speaks volumes here.

Occam's razor doesn't point towards the hypothesis of all of the corporate accounts being hacked and none of the employees reporting it.

I don't know why anyone would believe it could be a hack hours after it was posted and nobody in the company reacted to it.

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