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Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
111–120 of 187 posts
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#112favorite quote: "A computer doesn't care about your family background, your gender, just that you know how to code." — Dick Costolo (Twitter)
And a computer doesn't even care about that. :)
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#113Hear me out. I was full for this 'teach kids how to code' thingy. But I think we have got this all wrong. Heck we don't have the right kind of tools to teach kids how to code. In fact I have now realized that you can't and should not teach kids how to code. You rather must teach them how to solve problems. Math was supposed to deal with that, but unfortunately that turned out to be complicated symbol manipulation if…
You make a lot of assumptions about how kids have to be taught coding. > I tried everything possible. Every other trick in the trade. Even tried to start with Python first and not C. > They struggle to understand where or why should you use an if/else/switch statement, or a for/do/while loop. Its difficult for them to map solution patterns to a code pattern. Its not their fault. Its ours. Better luck trying to explai…
I think both you and the grandparent are making a mistake. He assumes children dislike math. You assume children will like karel. I think the truth is that children have different interests and that you can only bring them to programming by latching on to those interests. Many children like math. Many other children will not like karel.
The result: to engage as many children as possible, you need several introductory tracks: one that uses math, one that uses puzzle solving, one that uses drawing, one for another common interest, etc. Also be aware of the way interests change with age.
Teaching is hard and almost every approach invented seems to rely on yet another silver bullet.
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
You make a lot of assumptions about how kids have to be taught coding. > I tried everything possible. Every other trick in the trade. Even tried to start with Python first and not C. > They struggle to understand where or why should you use an if/else/switch statement, or a for/do/while loop. Its difficult for them to map solution patterns to a code pattern. Its not their fault. Its ours. Better luck trying to explai…
I think both you and the grandparent are making a mistake. He assumes children dislike math. You assume children will like karel. I think the truth is that children have different interests and that you can only bring them to programming by latching on to those interests. Many children like math. Many other children will not like karel. The result: to engage as many children as possible, you need several introductory…
haha yes, you make a good point. I do think that including several ways to try to connect with beginners is important, and that is what we hope to do. I really like the logo the turtle approach as well.
I think my main concern with the previous comment is that the dominant method for introducing programming is too syntax-heavy, math-heavy, starting with a language with a lot of overhead for beginners, so ours is an alternative.
Not everyone will like our intro, as you note. But I think it has a very different feel than the way many students are introduced to programming in school (see AP Java class).
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#115Still with the learn to code meme? In addition to all the reasons that @codinghorror raises in http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/05/please-dont-learn-t..., I have a one more to add.
The altruism of it all stinks. The meme is being pushed by parties (non-profit or not) looking to gain from teaching people to program (after convincing them that they absolutely should). While it's true that learning to code is beneficial to some (I don't doubt that) no one talks about how these friendly, helpful, code tutors might be exaggerating the demand for reasons of their own. While you might be trying to help people out, you're also trying to push your startup or non-profit.
I like the idea of better aligning education with job demand; something I don't think higher education institutions are particularly concerned with. That's practical and I wish we did more of it. Similar to these learn-to-code websites, colleges could care less what you do with yourself after you've paid your tuition.
What I liked about the code.org celeb video were the recollections of first programs. Like a first kiss, you never forget your first program. No matter how simple it is, that feeling is awesome. And if you're made for it, you want to do more, you want to make it better. That's the spark that, if you have it, puts you on the unending journey to being and becoming a coder.
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
You make a lot of assumptions about how kids have to be taught coding. > I tried everything possible. Every other trick in the trade. Even tried to start with Python first and not C. > They struggle to understand where or why should you use an if/else/switch statement, or a for/do/while loop. Its difficult for them to map solution patterns to a code pattern. Its not their fault. Its ours. Better luck trying to explai…
I think both you and the grandparent are making a mistake. He assumes children dislike math. You assume children will like karel. I think the truth is that children have different interests and that you can only bring them to programming by latching on to those interests. Many children like math. Many other children will not like karel. The result: to engage as many children as possible, you need several introductory…
I think this is a good point, but I'll take it a step further. The kid that likes drawing doesn't have to be a programmer, so stop trying to teach it to him and let him draw without the constraints that programming brings. We don't all have to be the same.
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
First, that's not nationwide in the US. I'm not aware of it being nationwide anywhere. In my school, there was a computer programming course on the list of choices. It disappeared when the time to actually register arrived. There was a web design course. We used dreamweaver. No one knew HTML. I spent the majority of my time in the class helping the other students do things they couldn't do in dreamweaver. The situati…
Here in NSW Australia there is a Year 11/12 subject "Software Design and Development". This has been there for at least a decade if not longer. It's offered at a majority of high schools. http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/syllabus_hsc/pdf_doc/so... Also in the 7-10 high school syllabus there are options for projects that include: AI simulation and modelling, multimedia authoring, database design, website developme…
I did Software dev in year 11/12. We did vb6 back then (03/04) god I hope that has changed, but I can't help but think it helped me get where I am now
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#118Hear me out. I was full for this 'teach kids how to code' thingy. But I think we have got this all wrong. Heck we don't have the right kind of tools to teach kids how to code. In fact I have now realized that you can't and should not teach kids how to code. You rather must teach them how to solve problems. Math was supposed to deal with that, but unfortunately that turned out to be complicated symbol manipulation if…
You make a lot of assumptions about how kids have to be taught coding. > I tried everything possible. Every other trick in the trade. Even tried to start with Python first and not C. > They struggle to understand where or why should you use an if/else/switch statement, or a for/do/while loop. Its difficult for them to map solution patterns to a code pattern. Its not their fault. Its ours. Better luck trying to explai…
OT and I don't know if you'll find this useful but http://codehs.com/ looks like an absolute trainwreck to me, layout-wise. I'm using Firefox 19 on Ubuntu.
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think both you and the grandparent are making a mistake. He assumes children dislike math. You assume children will like karel. I think the truth is that children have different interests and that you can only bring them to programming by latching on to those interests. Many children like math. Many other children will not like karel. The result: to engage as many children as possible, you need several introductory…
I think this is a good point, but I'll take it a step further. The kid that likes drawing doesn't have to be a programmer, so stop trying to teach it to him and let him draw without the constraints that programming brings. We don't all have to be the same.
Meanwhile, the kid who likes programming will probably be drawn to it naturally, as well. I know I was, a long time ago. I can appreciate wanting to lower the barrier to entry for such kids, but I honestly don't think it's excessively high to start with.
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think both you and the grandparent are making a mistake. He assumes children dislike math. You assume children will like karel. I think the truth is that children have different interests and that you can only bring them to programming by latching on to those interests. Many children like math. Many other children will not like karel. The result: to engage as many children as possible, you need several introductory…
I think this is a good point, but I'll take it a step further. The kid that likes drawing doesn't have to be a programmer, so stop trying to teach it to him and let him draw without the constraints that programming brings. We don't all have to be the same.
The point you make here (and one made by many others) is a straw man/reductio ad absurdum argument.
People who advocate that everyone should learn to code (like myself) to not advocate the absurd conclusions that are used by others to refute this standpoint.
I do think people should learn to code. This does not mean I think: 1. Everyone should be a professional programmer. 2. "Everyone should be the same"
You can make similar arguments to a person who says "everyone should learn to read," but then you misunderstand the spirit of the discussion.