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DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

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Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#111

Post by wnight »

mhurron wrote: post #13
betterunix wrote: post #4

So, remember a few months ago, when people like me were saying that the third parties are the only hope in America's democracy? Then a bunch of people said that Obama was worlds different from Romney, and that comparing Obama to Bush was lunacy. I have to wonder what happens when those Obama supporters with left-wing sentiments read an article like this.

If D and R are interchangeable what makes you think a third party would be any different?

Neither are interchangeable, they're just equally bad for global citizens who want to make a better world.

The problem with two parties is that they collect votes based on ideology not actions. Technically three isn't enough to avoid this but in general use it implies many third parties, such that governing is no longer one painful voice pushed on everyone, but a consensus of the governed.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#112

Post by anigbrowl »

ahallock wrote: post #104
tptacek wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An article like what? I voted or and contibuted to Obama because I felt he would fight for public schools and against nationwide voucher programs, and because he supported meaningful health care reform. I had absolutely zero expectation that Obama would waste political capital revamping CBP. The TSA is a far bigger problem for ordinary Americans than CBP is, and a more constitutionally offensive one. I think we can a…

Fight for public schools? Public schools are indoctrination centers where you graduate without any meaningful job skills. Why? So young people can't compete with adults in the job market, and are then forced to go into massive debt for college. You aren't taught logic or philosophy, which would lead people to invalidate the State and public school system. Education needs major disruption, which we're beginning to see…

Try to stay on topic. Not only are your comments rheotircal rather than evidence-based, they have nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#113

Post by betterunix »

scarmig wrote: post #72
pmorici wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an over simplification of what is in the Wikipedia article. It also says, "He also opposed an amendment, then before the General Court, that would have banned same-sex marriage and outlawed all domestic partnership benefits for gay couples." It sounds like he supported equal rights and benefits but opposed the use of the term "marriage" being applied to gay couples. Still seems like a superficial difference to…

I'm guessing you're neither gay nor female. Romney said a thousand different things over the years: what matters is what he would have implemented, which would have been the program of his then-owners: the hard-right. The amount of damage another Alito or Scalia would have done to the rights of women and sexual minorities by itself blows the idea that their difference was just "superficial" out of the water.

"The amount of damage another Alito or Scalia would have done to the rights of women and sexual minorities by itself blows the idea that their difference was just "superficial" out of the water."

Hm...the damage done to minorities...

Barack Obama ramped up a US government program that has devastated African American communities across America. The War on Drugs has had a vastly disproportionate effect on black people in America, and the Obama administration is a big fan (as part of a deal to bring pharmaceutical companies on board with the healthcare bill).

So while you sit there terrified that one group of right-wing politicians might push against gay marriage or try to repeal Row v. Wade, you seem to have failed to notice that behind the curtain there is another minority that is hard-hit by the administration's right-wing approach and its ties to powerful industries.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#114

Post by betterunix »

Bud wrote: post #91
pmorici wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"anyone who is a woman or gay will almost surely agree with me." Only because politicians pander to their perceived voting blocks. Is there any evidence, out side of statements made during the campaign, that Romney actually holds views towards gays and women that are substantially different than Obama's?

You seem unclear on the point. It doesn't really matter that much what Romney's own views are. It matters that he's a Republican, and would appoint right-wing judges and a right-wing cabinet and would sign Republican legislation. These judges and legislation would, of course, be substantially different from those resulting from an Obama Administration.

"These judges and legislation would, of course, be substantially different from those resulting from an Obama Administration."

Is there some reason to believe that? Obama kept or accelerated a large number of rights-killing policies from the Bush administration...

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#115

Post by ahallock »

anigbrowl wrote: post #112
ahallock wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fight for public schools? Public schools are indoctrination centers where you graduate without any meaningful job skills. Why? So young people can't compete with adults in the job market, and are then forced to go into massive debt for college. You aren't taught logic or philosophy, which would lead people to invalidate the State and public school system. Education needs major disruption, which we're beginning to see…

Try to stay on topic. Not only are your comments rheotircal rather than evidence-based, they have nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

tptacek was giving a reason for why he voted for Obama. I was arguing that it's a poor reason. It's a digression, I'll give you that.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#116

Post by m0nastic »

rdouble wrote: post #103
martinced wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You can certainly be searched without a warrant all throughout Europe." Never happened to me but I do believe you. However what did happen though is that a vehicle of mine equipped with a GPS got stolen in Europe and despite me telling the cops exactly behind which garage door the vehicle was located, they refused to open the garage without a warrant. Now so many days have passed by that it's likely that the thieves…

I'm not sure where you got that second quote. It's nowhere else in the thread, the article, or any of tptacek's comments on any other recent threads.

It's lyrics from a Clash song (technically a reggae song they covered, but most people associate it with them). It's about the police misusing their power.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#117

Post by tptacek »

martinced wrote: post #100
tptacek wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My most vivid experience of traveling in Europe in 2000 was of having my bags searched on a train midway between Zurich to Prague. Not as a condition of getting on the train, but 30 minutes out from the last station we'd stopped at. Not on any individualized suspicion, but as one of several passengers to receive the same treatment. Not in order to protect the safety of passengers, but (evidently) as part of a drug in…

"You can certainly be searched without a warrant all throughout Europe." Never happened to me but I do believe you. However what did happen though is that a vehicle of mine equipped with a GPS got stolen in Europe and despite me telling the cops exactly behind which garage door the vehicle was located, they refused to open the garage without a warrant. Now so many days have passed by that it's likely that the thieves…

Do the worm on Acropolis. Slam dance cosmopolis. Enlighten the populace.

It's one of HN's most charming quirks that a reluctance to subscribe to conspiracy theories makes one a stalwart supporter of the state.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#118

Post by tptacek »

ahallock wrote: post #104
tptacek wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An article like what? I voted or and contibuted to Obama because I felt he would fight for public schools and against nationwide voucher programs, and because he supported meaningful health care reform. I had absolutely zero expectation that Obama would waste political capital revamping CBP. The TSA is a far bigger problem for ordinary Americans than CBP is, and a more constitutionally offensive one. I think we can a…

Fight for public schools? Public schools are indoctrination centers where you graduate without any meaningful job skills. Why? So young people can't compete with adults in the job market, and are then forced to go into massive debt for college. You aren't taught logic or philosophy, which would lead people to invalidate the State and public school system. Education needs major disruption, which we're beginning to see…

I'm explaining why I voted for Obama, not why you should have. If you think we should outlaw corn chips, or annex Monaco, or subsidize free public sausage making classes, Obama wasn't your candidate. More power to you.

The reason my comment was relevant to the thread was that it was asserted elsewhere that Obama supporters were intellectually inconsistent for doing so despite Obama's manifest refusal to dial back Homeland Security.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#119

Post by tptacek »

ataggart wrote: post #101
tptacek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. I should have said "the concept of reasonableness" instead of "the word reasonable". Either way: unless you think James Madison was incompetent, the subjective word "unreasonable" appears in the amendment alongside the objective word "warrant" entirely in order to give the courts leeway to make case-by-case decisions about authorizing searches. The word "unreasonable" was no clearer in the 1780s than it…

the subjective word "unreasonable" appears in the amendment alongside the objective word "warrant" entirely in order to give the courts leeway to make case-by-case decisions about authorizing searches. This looks like it agrees with my point: the warrant process is the objective mechanism by which the subjective reasonable/unreasonable decision is carried out. This says nothing about the permissibility of searches wh…

You need a better understanding of common law and civil law. We're a common law country, and the Constitution is an instrument of common law. If you try to interpret it as the entire operating manual for the country, you'll end up in crazyland.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#120

Post by nonamegiven »

sneak wrote: post #86
tptacek wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An article like what? I voted or and contibuted to Obama because I felt he would fight for public schools and against nationwide voucher programs, and because he supported meaningful health care reform. I had absolutely zero expectation that Obama would waste political capital revamping CBP. The TSA is a far bigger problem for ordinary Americans than CBP is, and a more constitutionally offensive one. I think we can a…

Sometimes, when faced with a terrible set of game theory circumstances, the only winning move is not to play.

It's better to vote for a third party that's somewhere toward your side of the political spectrum.

If you don't vote, that's just a smaller pool that each side will get approximately half of, and you've voted for a candidate that can't win: nobody. You haven't affected anything (not that you are required to affect anything).

If you vote for a third party, that's still someone that probably can't win, but you've moved the needle a bit away from the other two.

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