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The Sex Tape Litmus Test

laverick.org

111–120 of 138 posts

Re: The Sex Tape Litmus Test

#111
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this particular case though, there's not a lot of complexity or nuance, is there? It's a blanket "We own all your IP" clause in a contract.

But contracts itself are bound by city, state, and federal law, including civil, labor, IP, patent, etc... Or you might get a bad lawyer or a favorable judge.

So? Contracts should be as close to your agreement as possible, and be within city/state/federal laws.

If your contract isn't accurate, it's like programming by hammering some shoddy crap together and letting the testers/users sort it out.

Re: The Sex Tape Litmus Test

#112
post #38
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can quit and work somewhere else. Also you can read about what Sony does on Hacker News and decide not to apply there for a job in the first place. I really hope you are not actually against customized employment contracts- there are a lot of cases where they can be useful. What might be better is prohibiting instances of terms you find offensive. For example, California's moonlighting law, which effectively…

I think for many people it's going to be hard to fulfill the following: > ... except for those inventions that either: (1) relate at the time of conception or reduction to practice of the invention to the employer’s business, or actual or demonstrably anticipated research or development of the employer ... As a programmer, there's not a lot I can do that is going to be considered wholly unrelated to what I'm employed…

I happen to have knowledge that google indeed does have such an explicit clause in it's employment contract. It sounds something like "... google deals with pretty much everything in computer software field. So if you invent/design/create anything at all computer related, while under employment with Google, we own it by default".

Re: The Sex Tape Litmus Test

#113
post #96
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The primary function of a legal department is to provide advice that prevents legally actionable mistakes. This advice does not have to be sane, or efficient, (...) Strong disagreement. As a counterport, would you agree to the following: ``the primary function of a programming department is to crank out code. the code doesn't have to run predictably, nor be maintainable nor indeed have any business requirements. KL…

the primary function of a programming department is to crank out code OP didn't say the primary function of the legal department was to crank out legal language. He does say their job is to crank out advice that "prevents legally actionable mistakes". Similarly, I think most developers at core are expected to output code that fulfill some communicated requirement.

This is a much better comparison.

Most programmers code to a "spec" - what they were asked to do. Only a small minority would voice their opinion if the spec is badly written or the product is not a good business idea.

Re: The Sex Tape Litmus Test

#114
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions in the US always have specific views that employees often don't share. Everything is about retirement, preservation of existing employees, and supporting other unions. The problem is that most tech workers want incompetent workers fired, since they make other workers lives more difficult. The field also moves fast enough that credentialization is not particularly helpful. In fact, it can be harmful. Unions wou…

Sure, but my point is that a die hard free market advocate should either disagree with what you just said, or swallow that hard pill and say that the problems with unions are just a necessary evil. Instead, many seem to be vehemently anti-union while still holding to a "the free market will solve everything" point of view. I'm not saying that unions are perfect. I'm saying that it's inconsistent to admit that they ca…

I'm pro free market, and against unions, just as I am against fascist political parties. One could analogously say 'the choice to vote oneself into serfdom is the ultimate freedom' - this is the age old 'problem' with freedom, and while I acknowledge that it's a paradox in the ideology of freedom, I also find it hardly ever a problem in practice. Just as with unions, since they invariably turn into choice- and freedom-restricting guild-like entities.

Re: The Sex Tape Litmus Test

#115
post #91
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In GA the constitution USED to be written such that unenforceable contracts, especially unenforceable employment contracts, were void in their entirety. They sadly passed an amendment to remove that :O(

Is GA something to do with a US state? Please spell these things out in full. It's only a few extra characters and it helps the rest of us pretend this site is global.

Spelling it out does not disambiguate it, as there is a country named that as well.

GA is oddly enough likely more specific, even if harder to decode, than Georgia. The country is abbreviated GE.

Re: The Sex Tape Litmus Test

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the "unrelated to work" might be a point of debate once you create IP of high value. In fact, in Germany we have the "Arbeitnehmererfindungsgesetz (ARBNERFG)" [1] which stipulates that your employer has first right to all patents and inventions related to your work, even if you create them in your spare time. The basic reasoning is that your employer supplies you with all tools and ressources required for the…

It's also ridiculously outdated. It's from 1957 and based on an outdated, traditional understanding of "big" industrial/engineering companies and their employees ("the little guys"). Also, it protects the companies' interests to the detriment of the employees' interests, which is understandable given that it is based on a war-time law (WWII) which was supposed to support German war engineering.

I'm not so sure that it's ridiculously outdated. Sure, it could use a brush-up but it acknowledges the basic fact that your employer often spends time educating you and allows access to ressources in your line of work that form the basis of your inventions - hence the requirement that the invention be related to your work. Fact is that inventions are rarely a stroke of genius that happens instantly in vacuum. They're often refinements and improvements of readily known things. Quite often they're obvious and simple in hindsight. It's a hard balance to strike, but just giving the option of moving all "inventions" to after-hours so that the employee gets all benefits won't cut it either, especially with modern work-time models such as flex-time or home office. I don't have a perfect solution, but giving the employer first-buy rights seems like a reasonable starting point for a compromise. The law stipulates a reasonable and fair compensation for the work provided.

Re: The Sex Tape Litmus Test

#117
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the "unrelated to work" might be a point of debate once you create IP of high value. In fact, in Germany we have the "Arbeitnehmererfindungsgesetz (ARBNERFG)" [1] which stipulates that your employer has first right to all patents and inventions related to your work, even if you create them in your spare time. The basic reasoning is that your employer supplies you with all tools and ressources required for the…

I love it how German seems to be able to put the whole law in one word :) It doesn't sound that stupid, depending on what "related" means - if it is indeed almost the same as you are being paid for, then it may make some sense (I'm not sure I agree with it, as it's basically means employer owns your thoughts, which seems a weird concept to me, but even if it is wrong it's not completely stupid). If it's just "it's al…

Overly broad applications are rare in germany. If you look at an engineering or research context it's easier to nail down: If you're a researcher the employer pays you for your thought and provides the lab, access to related research, to peers to discuss stuff with etc. Now you've been working on a particularly hard problem and the stroke of genius strikes you at midnight, you get up, work straight for two days and write down the formula you've been working on for years. It's worth a billion dollars. Technically it's during off-hours, so is it yours?

Re: The Sex Tape Litmus Test

#118
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but my point is that a die hard free market advocate should either disagree with what you just said, or swallow that hard pill and say that the problems with unions are just a necessary evil. Instead, many seem to be vehemently anti-union while still holding to a "the free market will solve everything" point of view. I'm not saying that unions are perfect. I'm saying that it's inconsistent to admit that they ca…

I don't see that as inconsistent at all. Why can't you be pro-free-market and anti-union? You can agree with the concept of a free market, but disagree with how unions currently operate. You appear to be confusing "I hate how unions tend to behave" with "I think unions should be forbidden". I think unions can do great things to protect the workers they represent, but I hate that many (most?) of them seem more focused…

> You can agree with the concept of a free market, but disagree with how unions currently operate.

You can do, but die-hard free market types only ever seem to disagree with how unions currently operate, not how corporations currently operate.

Re: The Sex Tape Litmus Test

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions don't have a legally enforced monopoly on labor. They obtain a monopoly or oligopoly through market power. The problem being that without unions, labor becomes subject to oligopsony buying power and Ricardo's Law of Rent kicks in.

They obtain a monopoly or oligopoly through market power. So if a union lacks market power, an employer is legally free to fire the union employees and replace them with non-union employees at market wages? The problem being that without unions, labor becomes subject to oligopsony buying power and Ricardo's Law of Rent kicks in. Can you explain this claim? While it's certainly true in a few narrow fields (chemistry/b…

In any field in which there is a concentration of employers relative to employees. Which is to say: most of them.

Quoting from Wikipedia: "The Law of Rent states that the rent of a land site is equal to the economic advantage obtained by using the site in its most productive use, relative to the advantage obtained by using marginal (i.e., the best rent-free) land for the same purpose, given the same inputs of labor and capital."

Where "land" is taken as capital, equipment, and/or alternate business opportunities, the employee's wage-bargaining leverage, in the absence of collective bargaining, is what s/he could make by going elsewhere and starting up a new firm. Where no new business opportunities exist, wage bargaining falls to subsistence levels (employers will pay employees the bare necessities for staying alive).

In the economy at large, the situation still remains true. An employer need pay an employee no more than that employee could claim at another job (or by going into business for him or herself), given the employee's skillset.

Given that skills tend to wed to experience, should the employee transition to a different line of work (at which they are less skilled), unless there is a peculiarly high demand for that work, their wages will fall. Also, the employer's surplus (that is, productivity above wages) is governed by the Law of Rent.

Given collective bargaining, through the threat of withholding labor (with skills that, collectively, the employer would be hard-pressed to replace), a negotiation for total compensation (wages, hours, benefits) in which more of the employee's surplus is distributed to the employee may be arranged.

Re: The Sex Tape Litmus Test

#120
post #70

California has a nice law that says that the employee owns IP created on his own time, unrelated to work, etc. This is a reason I moved to CA: the state I was in lacked such a law, and all the tech companies had contracts that failed the sex tape test. I suspect that for a place to flourish like Silicon Valley, it needs a law that protects self bootstrapping startups.

There is such a law but you should not assume it means what you think it means. Talk to a legal professional if it's important to you. One IP lawyer I interacted with maintained that the rulings in actual court practice are very unfavorable to the moonlighting employees. To the point that CA labor code 2870 might as well not exist (although of course he didn't say that in so many words.) "Actual or demonstrably antic…

That sucks. "Actual or demonstrably anticipated research" looks like a fairly clear attempt to make sure that companies can't just claim that they might be planning to go into some unrelated field, and it's unfortunate the courts don't see it that way.
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