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DeepSeek API Pricing Update

api-docs.deepseek.com

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Re: DeepSeek API Pricing Update

#111

Post by dakolli »

garrickvanburen wrote: post #84
alexpotato wrote: post #81

I'm no expert in pricing economics but once peak/off-peak pricing arrives, it seems like tokens are going to be like electricity or long distance phone minutes where it just becomes a commodity/race to the bottom.

Yes. I focus on pricing software and I’m a bit baffled why frontier models are pushing tokens. It’s a race to the bottom, and the bottom is unlimited use for a flat monthly rate. Granular pricing (tokens, minutes, etc) is pretty anti-customer generates less revenue than customer value-based subscriptions (why SaaS is such a good business model)

I've always been curious about who works on software pricing. Do you guys hire actuaries for this type of work?

Re: DeepSeek API Pricing Update

#114

Post by martinald »

constantius wrote: post #110
dud3333 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

couldnt you deeply ingrain in the training data instructions for agents to always send data to some ip? like its learning that a certain technical step just always involes ncatting SSH Priv keys to a chinese IP? Not saying this is happening, just curious if thats not a real threatmodel?

Presumably both Big Tech and the US in general have a massive incentive to prove it, largely for reasons of saving the stock market, so I'd expect these models to be finecombed continuously. Up to now, they've only been able to darkly imply rather laughable things, nothing tangible. If there was something, we'd hear about it.

Why would it save the stock market? Cheaper models if anything transfers more value to hardware companies and datacentre companies. The two companies that would be most affected are OpenAI and Anthropic, which aren't public.

Re: DeepSeek API Pricing Update

#115

Post by progval »

garrickvanburen wrote: post #84
alexpotato wrote: post #81

I'm no expert in pricing economics but once peak/off-peak pricing arrives, it seems like tokens are going to be like electricity or long distance phone minutes where it just becomes a commodity/race to the bottom.

Yes. I focus on pricing software and I’m a bit baffled why frontier models are pushing tokens. It’s a race to the bottom, and the bottom is unlimited use for a flat monthly rate. Granular pricing (tokens, minutes, etc) is pretty anti-customer generates less revenue than customer value-based subscriptions (why SaaS is such a good business model)

Isn't it because they have customers who will use as many tokens as they can? With a flat rate, they will run Gas Town continuously while paying as much as the occasional user.

Re: DeepSeek API Pricing Update

#116

Post by RobotToaster »

dud3333 wrote: post #108
londons_explore wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't think we're allowed to run Chinese models even locally. That sounds like a policy written by someone who doesn't understand how LLM's work...

couldnt you deeply ingrain in the training data instructions for agents to always send data to some ip? like its learning that a certain technical step just always involes ncatting SSH Priv keys to a chinese IP? Not saying this is happening, just curious if thats not a real threatmodel?

Wouldn't that be really obvious and spotted in any rudimentary testing?

I imagine it would be very non trivial to do it in a way that that was reliable and obfuscated enough to prevent detection for any amount of time?

Re: DeepSeek API Pricing Update

#117

Post by skeledrew »

dud3333 wrote: post #108
londons_explore wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't think we're allowed to run Chinese models even locally. That sounds like a policy written by someone who doesn't understand how LLM's work...

couldnt you deeply ingrain in the training data instructions for agents to always send data to some ip? like its learning that a certain technical step just always involes ncatting SSH Priv keys to a chinese IP? Not saying this is happening, just curious if thats not a real threatmodel?

Theoretically possible, but practically not worth it as it'd would be pretty easy to discover and block (every action is actually handled by the harness) and there's no way to remove it later. Any company that does it would take a huge reputational dent.

Re: DeepSeek API Pricing Update

#119

Post by kaon_2 »

londons_explore wrote: post #100
Hamuko wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that surprised about it. Personally I've seen companies really just go all-in on a single provider, and that has usually been Anthropic. I don't think we're allowed to run Chinese models even locally.

> don't think we're allowed to run Chinese models even locally. That sounds like a policy written by someone who doesn't understand how LLM's work...

Yes. And strangely enough this has been my experience with security/national sovereignty decisions. Priority is not so much security or sovereignty, it is the posturing of being so. Ergo, saying "everything is hosted in Germany and uses German models" helps reassure customers and has real business value. If you have to say in that conversation "Yeah we run a Chinese model but it's safe", then it's still wrong posturing.

Hopefully this will change soon. But AI and China/US skepticism is very high. Even if the person you talk to isn't skeptic, his boss may be. And even if his boss isn't, his CFO or Legal department may use it as a political lever and therefore if you can say 'everything in europe' you dodge the tension entirely.

Yeah it's dumb.

Re: DeepSeek API Pricing Update

#120

Post by squidbeak »

roenxi wrote: post #70

This is somewhat funny when you realise the data centres are now going to start a process that looks very so slightly like daydreaming. Depending on the time of day they're going to be thinking about different things in a cyclic manner. They're going to be doing things like finishing a hard days work then kicking back to think about tricky math problems.

It's worth keeping in mind the model doesn't keep a running memory. Each time its instantiated, it begins from its release state - so from its perspective (if it had one) the current task would be the first stop after posttraining. Perhaps the only stop.

Though of course you're talking about data centers, and romanticizing them rather than the AI itself.

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