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Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

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Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#111

Post by greyface- »

lrvick wrote: post #89

Linux distro founder here (stagex) I will never be compelled to implement this, and would never merge it. Every release requires quorum signatures by an international maintainer team, and the distro is designed to work offline-first, with some variants not even supporting network drivers in the kernel, so Illinois legislators can eat shit.

Good news: the legislation doesn't target you as an individual.

       "Operating system provider" means a commercial or
  non-profit entity that controls the Internet-enabled device's
  operating system, including the design, programming, or supply
  of operating systems for the Internet-enabled devices.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#112

Post by EA-3167 »

lrvick wrote: post #104
otterley wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in the USA or plan to visit someday, I would recommend you speak with your attorney before making such commitments.

I am in the USA, but I literally cannot comply because by design it is not possible for me to ship changes without the international maintainer team agreeing to them. And Illinois legislators have no power over them. Also, we are not a company. We are an independent community owned project. Our code is free speech and I will burn the world down to defend that right. Truly I dare someone to try to take me to court ove…

I respect your principled stance on one hand, while on the other I’m amazed that someone as successful as you hasn’t learned that logic doesn’t dictate how governments work.

Don’t make a target of yourself, there are countless ways for a government to make your life miserable.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#113

Post by hex4def6 »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #59
mosura wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a technical ratchet. Once you accept part of the implementation it will never be undone, more will be added.

Literally a slippery slope argument

In a philosophy classroom, it’s a fallacy. In a courtroom, it’s called precedent.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#114

Post by hackinthebochs »

izzydata wrote: post #38
largehotcoffee wrote: post #29

Unpopular opinion, but this is objectively better than having to upload your ID to every random website that requires an age check (if that's what the end result is).

In the sense that a website could just ask your OS if you are over a certain age and that age was self declared? That seems fine to me, but why can't the websites just ask me for my self declared age? That's how things used to be and that makes more sense in my opinion because an OS isn't the thing displaying content. It just run whatever it is told to run.

>but why can't the websites just ask me for my self declared age?

Because children just click through the age gate when it suits them. With this legislation, a parent that purchases the device and creates an account for the child can set the age once and take the decision out of the kids hands. It's a huge improvement without any significant privacy issues. I can't fathom why the tech crowd is having a collective aneurism over this.

>OS isn't the thing displaying content

But the account on the OS is the right place for the single source of truth of properties of the current user.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#115

Post by otterley »

lrvick wrote: post #104
otterley wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in the USA or plan to visit someday, I would recommend you speak with your attorney before making such commitments.

I am in the USA, but I literally cannot comply because by design it is not possible for me to ship changes without the international maintainer team agreeing to them. And Illinois legislators have no power over them. Also, we are not a company. We are an independent community owned project. Our code is free speech and I will burn the world down to defend that right. Truly I dare someone to try to take me to court ove…

There are a lot of remedies available to a court with respect to a recalcitrant party, ranging from an injunction to remove your product from the market to fines and imprisonment. Again, speak with your attorney. Do not try to "hack the law" yourself; many who have tried have regretted it later.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#116

Post by Barrin92 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #34
badgersnake wrote: post #7

It’s bonkers that 50 states all decide to make their own set of rules for this. Maybe talk to each other?

It's a feature that states can (mostly) decide for themselves what laws they want to live under.

when it comes to commerce it isn't because it makes doing business impossible. How is this practically going to look, Canonical, Red Hat and open source maintainers are going to ship 50 different Linux distributions in the United States?

The reason the US has fairly robust interstate commerce laws is because if you don't you'll have trade barriers between states. Even the most well intentioned internet company can't operate in that ecosystem

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#117

Post by moffkalast »

greyface- wrote: post #111
lrvick wrote: post #89

Linux distro founder here (stagex) I will never be compelled to implement this, and would never merge it. Every release requires quorum signatures by an international maintainer team, and the distro is designed to work offline-first, with some variants not even supporting network drivers in the kernel, so Illinois legislators can eat shit.

Good news: the legislation doesn't target you as an individual. "Operating system provider" means a commercial or non-profit entity that controls the Internet-enabled device's operating system, including the design, programming, or supply of operating systems for the Internet-enabled devices.

So OEMs will only be shipping Windows and that's more or less it.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#119

Post by lrvick »

greyface- wrote: post #111
lrvick wrote: post #89

Linux distro founder here (stagex) I will never be compelled to implement this, and would never merge it. Every release requires quorum signatures by an international maintainer team, and the distro is designed to work offline-first, with some variants not even supporting network drivers in the kernel, so Illinois legislators can eat shit.

Good news: the legislation doesn't target you as an individual. "Operating system provider" means a commercial or non-profit entity that controls the Internet-enabled device's operating system, including the design, programming, or supply of operating systems for the Internet-enabled devices.

stagex accepts tax deductable donations via opencollective but we do not actually have a registered legal entity, so yes, probably fine.

I mostly just want to make it clear this type of legislation is unenforceable and a waste of everyone's time.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#120

Post by cleaning »

skinfaxi wrote: post #45
largehotcoffee wrote: post #29

Unpopular opinion, but this is objectively better than having to upload your ID to every random website that requires an age check (if that's what the end result is).

It started with showing ID at airports and now we have to take off our shoes. Slippery slope is the actual modus operandi of government.

...we don't have to take off shoes anymore at US airports though.
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