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Chinese chipmaker shares surge 470%

bbc.com

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Re: Chinese chipmaker shares surge 470%

#111

Post by mrtksn »

norman784 wrote: post #107
mrtksn wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, all high end chips are made in Asia with EU tooling. US happens to be the place where the managers are and the trade is facilitated. There has been some good progress to push Asia make cips in USA with EU machines however IIRC significant part of the chain is still in Asia and chips made in USA are shipped to Asia for further processing. Edit: changed China with Asia to distance the comment from Taiwan-Ch…

AFAIK the high end chips are made in Taiwan, that's not the same. Also there was an export control, so ASML couldn't sell the latest equipment to China.

Officially, according to USA, Taiwan is China but this is pedantic. Let's call it Asia instead of going into China-Taiwan politics

Re: Chinese chipmaker shares surge 470%

#113

Post by mrtksn »

zer00eyz wrote: post #110
mrtksn wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, all high end chips are made in Asia with EU tooling. US happens to be the place where the managers are and the trade is facilitated. There has been some good progress to push Asia make cips in USA with EU machines however IIRC significant part of the chain is still in Asia and chips made in USA are shipped to Asia for further processing. Edit: changed China with Asia to distance the comment from Taiwan-Ch…

> To be fair, all high end chips are made in China with EU tooling. Did you mean Taiwan? Because depending on who you ask that is, or is not china. The Chinese have been cut off from EU tooling for a while now. And their attempts to build out their own lithography setups have been a failure. Their 7nm process is, by all measures, not delivering the yields that one would need to make it really successful.

No I don't mean anything related to politics of China-Taiwan. I have no interest in that.

Re: Chinese chipmaker shares surge 470%

#114

Post by seb1204 »

t-sauer wrote: post #40
londons_explore wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter. However much intelligence you can squeeze into 1 GB, people will always want more. Standard Def TV was plenty for 50 years. But when more was on offer, everyone went for it, and now you can't even buy a 480p TV.

Your example also counters your point: A lot of people do not care about 4k, and even less do care about 8k or above. We reached a point where most people are completely happy with the quality they get.

I dare say many are watching on handheld devices and not big screens. At least a sizeable percentage I would say. My guess.

Re: Chinese chipmaker shares surge 470%

#115

Post by HelloMcFly »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #41
londons_explore wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter. However much intelligence you can squeeze into 1 GB, people will always want more. Standard Def TV was plenty for 50 years. But when more was on offer, everyone went for it, and now you can't even buy a 480p TV.

Your example contradicts you. 2K, 4K, and 8K+ TVs have been around forever, and although 4K has become the norm, it's widely accepted that there isn't much benefit for most people above 1080p

> it's widely accepted that there isn't much benefit for most people above 1080p

Is it? By whom? For larger TVs, closer distance, or a combination of the two, there absolutely is value from 4k. https://i.rtings.com/images/optimal-viewing-distance-televis...

Though I'm unlikely to ever upgrade from 1440p on my computer, personally.

Re: Chinese chipmaker shares surge 470%

#116

Post by wasfgwp »

Tade0 wrote: post #63
jonkoops wrote: post #7

EU chip industry: best I can do is eat glue in the corner.

Don't make me tap the sign that says "ASML". Difference between Europe and the others is that it doesn't brag nearly as much.

And that’s about it..

In relative terms there is no innovation happening outside of that and some other smaller companies providing highly specialized components that are a part of the supply chain.

There isn’t just much if anything to brag about. ASML is great but it’s effectively a monopoly (for the time being) due to a large extent some correct historical choices.

Re: Chinese chipmaker shares surge 470%

#117

Post by wasfgwp »

mrtksn wrote: post #93
jonkoops wrote: post #7

EU chip industry: best I can do is eat glue in the corner.

To be fair, all high end chips are made in Asia with EU tooling. US happens to be the place where the managers are and the trade is facilitated. There has been some good progress to push Asia make cips in USA with EU machines however IIRC significant part of the chain is still in Asia and chips made in USA are shipped to Asia for further processing. Edit: changed China with Asia to distance the comment from Taiwan-Ch…

> US happens to be the place where the managers

And you know.. the actual design for plenty of these chips. By that definition Apple is also an Asian company..

> with EU tooling

That is only a (vital) part of the supply chain, there are plenty of other components.

Re: Chinese chipmaker shares surge 470%

#119

Post by wasfgwp »

Tade0 wrote: post #61
eckelhesten wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sell the shovels, we need someone actually digging for gold.

Shovels have always been the better out of the two investments. There were rumours about China grabbing hold of one of ASML's machines, but with no additional information on this it's safe to assume they're still hammering out 7nm chips using DUV at piss poor yields.

Except in China’s case where they eventually figured out how to make shovels themselves in plenty of other industries (and likely at some point in the future chip fabrication as well)

Re: Chinese chipmaker shares surge 470%

#120

Post by wasfgwp »

lelanthran wrote: post #81
jonkoops wrote: post #7

EU chip industry: best I can do is eat glue in the corner.

> EU chip industry: best I can do is eat glue in the corner. Aren't they the only ones able to supply the chip-making machines?

Based on the empirical evidence we have ASML succeeded in spite of the EU not because of it (so “they” is bot exactly fair). There is not much EU has going on besides that when it comes to growth and innovation.

It’s a bit like Novo Nordisk, they had a huge win and then just focused on making as much money while it lasted while more innovative companies ate up their market.

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