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The bread paradox: why convenience always wins, and why SaaS isn't doomed

joanwestenberg.com

111–120 of 127 posts

Re: The bread paradox: why convenience always wins, and why SaaS isn't doomed

#111
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seen similar. They will be back when they realise the vibe coded SaaS run by two people in a trailer park isn’t what it looked like. A lot of the big SaaS stuff isn’t code or product. It’s support and hand holding.

And AI cannot do support + hand-holding?

I'm one of the most pro-AI support/solutions/FDE engineers you'll find, and I really don't see AI taking away support and hand holding.

Even though I use AI to answer questions large customers would still rather wait for a weekly meeting to ask a question or have someone fly onsite then write the same question in an email or to a chatbot and get a near instant answer

Re: The bread paradox: why convenience always wins, and why SaaS isn't doomed

#113

I think this is true, but there's also another thing here: The software market is incredibly complex, and much of the "SaaS is dead because I can vibe-code custom software" voices don't understand why certain products are bought. Let's take project/task management stuff. You can vibe-code a kanban board, task tracker with different statuses, and project folders quite easily. For my personal use, I can probably build…

... and once you take more than the tiniest step beyond the defaults, the difficulty of configuring all that complex optionality exceeds the difficulty of coding your own, and coding the integrations you actually need. And you still get screwed when the vendor decides to make a change, or refuses to support some niche thing you need in favor of some niche thing a few more users need. Not to mention the security nightmare.

SaaS was mostly a bad deal before "AI".

Re: The bread paradox: why convenience always wins, and why SaaS isn't doomed

#114
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seen similar. They will be back when they realise the vibe coded SaaS run by two people in a trailer park isn’t what it looked like. A lot of the big SaaS stuff isn’t code or product. It’s support and hand holding.

And AI cannot do support + hand-holding?

We did that and our customer satisfaction tanked and the query logs were full of "fuck off and tell me how to speak to someone". This was as I expected it would be.

You really think people will give you any respect or interest if you stick something between them and you? How

Re: The bread paradox: why convenience always wins, and why SaaS isn't doomed

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And AI cannot do support + hand-holding?

I'm one of the most pro-AI support/solutions/FDE engineers you'll find, and I really don't see AI taking away support and hand holding. Even though I use AI to answer questions large customers would still rather wait for a weekly meeting to ask a question or have someone fly onsite then write the same question in an email or to a chatbot and get a near instant answer

Have you tried actually pretending to be human when replying to support? In many scenarios it leads to the same satisfaction

Re: The bread paradox: why convenience always wins, and why SaaS isn't doomed

#117
She's right about Saas. But breadmakers are not an example that land for me.

Breadmaker bread is cheaper, healthier, fresher, and more convenient in every way. I don't always eat bread for breakfast. If I want it tomorrow I have to remember to drive to the store today, costing me at least 15 minutes. Or I can spend 5 minutes setting up the machine before bedtime, and wake up to the smell of fresh bread.

Re: The bread paradox: why convenience always wins, and why SaaS isn't doomed

#118
Most AI is SaaS, so in a way this whole argument is circular. It's just one SaaS product gobbling up some other ones.

That said, "White Bread" is a fun book about the enshittification (not using that word lightly) of bread: https://biblioreads.eu.org/book/show/13122087-white-bread

A lot of what the article describes about SaaS is also in the book: the convenience, the standardization, the offloading of time, etc. The article doesn't really talk about the rot that has been going on in the SaaS realm though while the parallels in "White Bread" do.

The article talks about the high standards of bread making in the 12th century and then fast-forwards to the 1960s with a brief stop in 1928 to celebrate slicing tech. It leaves out the dangerous working conditions, the poisonous additives used to save money on bread and the cut-throat competition between U.S. bread companies that spurred those things on. Even ad campaigns that (much like this article) belittled baking bread yourself. Those same things are going on in the SaaS industry, but with software instead of food.

So why do people buy their bread and use SaaS?

> because it was easier, because it was consistent, and because the alternative cost time and attention they’d rather have spent elsewhere.

And just look at where we're spending that time and attention. Maybe it's different for businesses, but consumers are more miserable than ever because they rent garbage and eat bread where high-fructose-corn-syrup is the third ingredient.

> I think the SaaS companies that survive will be the ones that understand they sell convenience and accountability.

I think we've seen, whether that's with our phones (now basically a SaaS platform), our news, our health care, or our entertainment that convenience is enough. Accountability still counts for some b2b SaaS platforms, but the reason why the largest ones have so many lawyers is to get out of that accountability every time they can. And they do.

So yeah I guess I'm depressed that the article is mostly right. I think where it diverges though is that AI has helped me bake a lot more of my own software. It has put me in a place where I spend more time and attention on quality deliverables than I have before. It's too bad SaaS in its current form won't die, the same way it's sad that people are so caught up in their virtual lives that they won't bake a little of their own bread, especially when there's a convenient machine sitting on their counter ready to go.

Re: The bread paradox: why convenience always wins, and why SaaS isn't doomed

#119

I think this is true, but there's also another thing here: The software market is incredibly complex, and much of the "SaaS is dead because I can vibe-code custom software" voices don't understand why certain products are bought. Let's take project/task management stuff. You can vibe-code a kanban board, task tracker with different statuses, and project folders quite easily. For my personal use, I can probably build…

... and once you take more than the tiniest step beyond the defaults, the difficulty of configuring all that complex optionality exceeds the difficulty of coding your own, and coding the integrations you actually need. And you still get screwed when the vendor decides to make a change, or refuses to support some niche thing you need in favor of some niche thing a few more users need. Not to mention the security night…

[dead]

Re: The bread paradox: why convenience always wins, and why SaaS isn't doomed

#120
post #70

I work for a SaaS and we recently had an interesting situation where we lost some smaller customers but are in the process of getting dramatically larger ones at the same time. As in, we lost some customers that were roughly 20-people companies, but gained some customers that are 100+-people companies. The ones we lost seem to have just built our solution in-house, presumably with AI helping. Conventional wisdom woul…

That is, until a given SaaS becomes too greedy and someone identifies the core features people actually use, then spends a few weeks replicating them internally. I think AI familiarity still varies a lot across companies and individuals. Small companies/startups often move much faster than large corporations, so that may also explain what you're seeing. Long before LLMs I worked at places where even monitoring soluti…

Greed and inefficiency is what define SaaS. Compare what Microsoft give you for 50 bucks per month vs Atlassian or any ticketing services. It's absurd. They can charge up to $80/month for what shouldn't cost more than $5.
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