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Xsnow "protestware" in Debian

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Re: Xsnow "protestware" in Debian

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem isn't protesting someone's actions - it's supporting the other side do you really want to support country that kidnaps its citizens off the streets and honorary reburied Nazi criminals?

It's well documented that Russia is kidnapping its citizens off the streets to send them on an invasion of a sovereign country, but I hadn't heard that they're honoring nazis now. I'm not sure I believe that.

They aren't talking about Russia…

Re: Xsnow "protestware" in Debian

#112
post #63
post #14

One comment really nails the problem with this sort of thing: " People in Western countries don't realize how bad the situation on the ground actually is¹; random Ukrainian flags showing up on your work monitor can result in severe problems for you (like losing you job, or worse), especially if you work in the government sector. If they show up on your laptop in a random cafe or an airport, you might very well get a…

Wouldn't that be.. acceptable, if not entirely the point? Raising awareness? Some rando getting arrested for a screensaver they didn't know contained a flag is pretty efficient propaganda and would likely turn at least the involved people and their inner circles? It might not be the point but I doubt they'd be disappointed

I really really really hope the point of stuff of like this is NOT to make martyrs of randomly selected people in a foreign country. That would be an absolutely demented thing to try for. Not to mention the arrogance of thinking you need to show foreign people what their country is like. They know that better than you.

Re: Xsnow "protestware" in Debian

#113
post #108

Protestware as a whole has never worked to solve anything. Awareness of a particular issue is the only positive thing "protest" software has successfully tried, with the second order effect being better supply chain management. I don't use Linux or Xsnow but it baffles me how distributions would allow something like this. Sure, it's just flags now, but if you look at faker and colors.js, you'll see the other side of…

Distributions didn't "allow" anything. The author just uploaded it. That's all there is to it. The asset file isn't called "ukraine flag" so unless you open all the images or run this as a russian you will probably be completely unaware of this behaviour.

Sorry, the article didn't really say if it was upstream or only in Debian. I assumed it was only Debian.

I still stand on the point that stuff like this should be frowned upon regardless of stance on issue.

Re: Xsnow "protestware" in Debian

#114
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the war started, Europeans were forcing famous Russians living in Europe to denounce their government's evils. For example an opera house demanded a Russian opera singer to say something against the regime or be "blacklisted". As if it's so fucking easy to denounce a dictator who has murderous tendencies and who rules your homeland, as if it's so easy to insult him, and then what, not be able to return home and…

Oh, russians re-elected same govenment for past 35 years cheering invading neighbors every couple years since inception of russain federation. Problem is not in dictator. Problem is imperialistic russia and every russian citizen who does nothing about it. They should be denied every service from civilized world until they stop their fascism. And before you ask, yes, I did protest and depose dictator.

Well the voting is heavily manipulated since more than 10-15 years already, and many candidates are banned from running too (not to forget many opposition and critical figures were killed).

Of course they should change the government but I don't think it's possible to achieve that through elections.

Re: Xsnow "protestware" in Debian

#115
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is in fact a discrepancy between displaying flags and advocating directly for gendered violence: > Debian contributor "NoisyCoil" said that they had wanted to argue in favor of keeping the packages, but after looking at the content they had decided against it: > > I went peeking at the package and, unless I'm completely missing something, the second offensive Italian fortune says that women's "no"s shou…

> I think there is in fact a discrepancy between displaying flags and advocating directly for gendered violence NosiyCoil forgot to mention that I removed hundreds of fortunes containing racist/sexist jokes from the regular section, installed by default to every Italian user and displayed by default. I basically grew up reading them and 20 years later, I forked fortunes-it to get rid of them and put them in the offen…

NoisyCoil is of the opinion that offensive stuff in the offensive section (not installed nor displayed by default) are worse than quotes from fascist writers that in 2026 still inspire people to beat up journalists in Italy, installed and displayed by default.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2025/07/msg00186.html

Re: Xsnow "protestware" in Debian

#116
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's well documented that Russia is kidnapping its citizens off the streets to send them on an invasion of a sovereign country, but I hadn't heard that they're honoring nazis now. I'm not sure I believe that.

They aren't talking about Russia…

It's not clear who else they'd be talking about, because only idiotic propaganda claims Ukraine supports nazis, so that can't be it.

Re: Xsnow "protestware" in Debian

#117
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if they do something like speak Ukrainian. Sheesh, how different are the languages? Would it be an honest mistake to say a word in Ukrainian and not realize?

Honestly, this is like saying that someone who speaks Italian would mistake your for speaking Spanish. That's how it sounds. If you disagree - you clearly don't speak both languages. Just because some words are similar doesn't make them sound same.

I speak Spanish so this makes sense. Thank you. I am unfamiliar with both languages and was unsure how they deviated.

Re: Xsnow "protestware" in Debian

#118
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

popcon shows 302 users as of now: https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=xsnow

302 installs, could be one person with 302 virtual machines, and could be 1 million with popcon disabled (which is the default).

It could also be 302. You cannot just invent a massive user base because you have no information. Given how niche the software is there is no reasons to believe it is widely used in places where that would cause issues. I suspect not a single person has been impacted by seeing Ukrainian flags.

The push back in this is obviously coming from an anti Ukraine sentiment

Re: Xsnow "protestware" in Debian

#119
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't talking about Russia…

It's not clear who else they'd be talking about, because only idiotic propaganda claims Ukraine supports nazis, so that can't be it.

Before the war started, every single western news outlet claimed it too though, so I'm not entirely sure it's fully made up.

edit: also, like Finland, they were allied with nazi Germany in fighting Russia.

Re: Xsnow "protestware" in Debian

#120
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

302 installs, could be one person with 302 virtual machines, and could be 1 million with popcon disabled (which is the default).

It could also be 302. You cannot just invent a massive user base because you have no information. Given how niche the software is there is no reasons to believe it is widely used in places where that would cause issues. I suspect not a single person has been impacted by seeing Ukrainian flags. The push back in this is obviously coming from an anti Ukraine sentiment

I do agree that the user base is possibly minuscule. But as I said in other comments, even if it only happened to one single person, I wouldn't consider it an acceptable risk.

We've removed stuff from debian for way less than this.

> The push back in this is obviously coming from an anti Ukraine sentiment

You can read minds?

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