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Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

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Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#111
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a clever idea. Unfortunately, UV exposure is cumulative. So your skin is still getting damaged by the UV rays even if you're not getting burnt.

Cumulative but with a repair mechanism. There's not necessarily "rollover exposure".

There are temporary as well as permanent effects and the repair mechanism can be overwhelmed: photoaging, age spots, mutations.

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#112
post #62

The article seems to be a meta analysis of a bunch of conflicting research to support a narrative that we don’t really know shit. And fair, we don’t. But a couple of things we do know that weren’t covered - egregiously so - is that aging is UV damage. Sometimes called photoaging, wrinkles, sun spots, discoloration, fine lines, grey hair, all of that shit that you associate with someone visibly looking old is sun dama…

I'd rather look old than be one of those lunatics who goes for a summer walk in a longsleeve shirt, gloves, and a hat with built-in veil (a pretty common sight in the Bay Area)

Sounds like my parents, I would always sweat our beach walks with my mom wearing a nose protector that resembled a beak

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#113
post #91

Do we really have to reapply every 2 hours?

https://hidefromit.substack.com/p/there-is-no-evidence-you-s... seems to keep working over time better than this advice implies)

This is one of those things that will start a fight at a beach party so I'm just goongtto forget the two tenuous studies the FDA used to stand up the guidelines.

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#114
post #96
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did[1], and would be curious if anyone is familiar with the underlying study. How did they attempt to control for other factors? (I assume that they did, and am interested to know how) Also do you have to get a sunburn for sun damage to increase the risk of skin cancers? My understanding was accumulated sun exposure was the issue. [1] Lindqvist tracked the sunbathing habits of nearly 30,000 women in Sweden over 20…

The article cites another study by Richard Weller: > Sure enough, when he exposed volunteers to the equivalent of 30 minutes of summer sunlight without sunscreen, their nitric oxide levels went up and their blood pressure went down. I can't find information on the methods for this particular study. So I'm curious if he just set up UV lights on a timer and sat his subjects under them. That's something anyone can set u…

> turn the timer switch on for 30 minutes of a properly calibrated and positioned low-dose UV light (and out of direct line of sight to anyone not under it)

Gosh. Or just go outside! It has the added benefit of being somewhat enjoyable.

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#115

I made a small little web app calculator for myself and my family to figure out how long we could stay outside without needing sunscreen based on current UV and skin type. I use it daily in the summer and a couple thousand people use it every month also. You can check it out at https://sunburntimer.com . It's also free and open source software, github link in footer.

Amazing idea! A little Feedback: I tan easily but still have freckles.

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#116
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title is inadvertently correct only because modern margarine is healthier than alternatives such as butter.

Seed oil is healthier than milk fat? Going to need some framing definitions, here...

I had to look up the concept of a framing definition so I might have gotten these wrong but I would equivalently state:

1. Modern margarine is healthier than butter.

2. Seed oils are generally healthier than animal fats.

3. PUFAs are healthier than saturated fats.

4. In this case the industrial processed spread is healthier than the more natural less-processed spread.

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#117
post #53

Wow, it feels like nobody read the article. Findings: - high blood pressure leads to a lot of deaths - people that spend more time in the sun have lower blood pressure - skin cancer is caused by sun exposure, but it kills far, far less people than high blood pressure - people that spend more time in the sun have a lower rate of dying from skin cancer than people who spend less time in the sun! Summary: more sun expos…

Sigh. Correlation != causation It could be that people that spend more time in the sun are busy getting exercise. Which lowers blood pressure. It could be that people that spend a lot of time in the sun know that they have skin damage, and are more likely to detect melanomas due to more frequent checks of their damaged skin. Summary: More sun exposure may or may not lead to lower risk of death on two fronts. It seems…

[deleted]

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cumulative but with a repair mechanism. There's not necessarily "rollover exposure".

There are temporary as well as permanent effects and the repair mechanism can be overwhelmed: photoaging, age spots, mutations.

Right but there are common precautionary rule-of-thumb heuristics which lead normal people to believe that every sun exposure brings them a little closer to death. That's exaggerated. Or at least, the claims are widely contested.

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#119

> Homo sapiens have been around for 200,000 years. Until the industrial revolution, we lived outside. How did we get through the Neolithic Era without sunscreen? Actually, perfectly well. What’s counterintuitive is that dermatologists run around saying, ‘Don’t go outside, you might die.’” At least in Australia a big difference is that there is a hole in the ozone layer that stone age people did not have. Sun exposure…

> How did we get through the Neolithic Era without sunscreen?

By reproducing at 15 years old long before cancer is a problem? Skin cancer was probably at the very bottom of causes of death back then, by a fat margin.

They also didn't have tooth paste, tooth brush, soap, antibiotics, vaccines, so go ahead and live like a caveman... I'm 100% positive it'll have a negative impact on your lifespan

Re: Is sunscreen the new margarine? (2019)

#120

Since biological evolutionary forces have forever been fighting the sun are our bodies MORE or LESS suited to dealing with UV damage vs oxybenzone damage? Since oxybenzone can intercalate DNA rungs under extremely high local concentrations (forcing some molecules into cavities), or by photo-oxidation converting to radical cation, or in the presence of ethanol which lowers DNA hydration layers and can widen the inter-…

Either way it doesn't matter, use mineral sunscreen. Of course if you use bottom tier sunscreen formulated in the 60s you're asking for troubles
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