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Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

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Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#111

Post by impossiblefork »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #109
impossiblefork wrote: post #43

I think what's actually needed is two things: an EU training infrastructure that allows training of 10T+ models, and an EU inference infrastructure that is sufficient that it's possible to do RL on them. This effectively reduces the problem to a specialized supercomputing infrastructure problem which I think is relatively easy to solve. I think the chips are coming. I think Euclyd will be able to do the inference chi…

GLM 5.2 is ~40B active parameters, which is what matters most for training cost.

Yeah, but if its final performance comes from being trained with data from a bigger model one can question whether it's a way to build genuinely new 40B models.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#112

Post by Chu4eeno »

khurs wrote: post #38
dgellow wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropic engineering is in London and the US. The other offices in Europe are sales oriented

Zurich is also Engineering (any many staff in Zurich and London will be from other countries temporarily working there).

Do they put offices in only non-EU European countries purpose?

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#113

Post by impossiblefork »

tough wrote: post #106
impossiblefork wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, some risk must be taken, even the risk of such things. Some sort of alternative must be created, after all, since models are being restricted to the US only.

Yes I agree, I'd only wish there's some way for do this by the book, like its not so hard, Brasil government has produced almost SOTA models, why cant the UE figure shit out? They could even rent hw like everyone else to do the first trainings... But no, lets make this a 10B deal who someone will suck out 1B out of it even before its shipped

I think the way to do it is this: let EU chip design firms bid. They say what their systems can do, they give their prices, and then we choose the one that can achieve the requirements (pretrain multiple 10T+ models in a reasonable amount of time and then do RL on them) at the lowest cost.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#114

Post by sometimelurker »

impossiblefork wrote: post #43

I think what's actually needed is two things: an EU training infrastructure that allows training of 10T+ models, and an EU inference infrastructure that is sufficient that it's possible to do RL on them. This effectively reduces the problem to a specialized supercomputing infrastructure problem which I think is relatively easy to solve. I think the chips are coming. I think Euclyd will be able to do the inference chi…

Europe has asml

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#115

Post by sometimelurker »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #109
impossiblefork wrote: post #43

I think what's actually needed is two things: an EU training infrastructure that allows training of 10T+ models, and an EU inference infrastructure that is sufficient that it's possible to do RL on them. This effectively reduces the problem to a specialized supercomputing infrastructure problem which I think is relatively easy to solve. I think the chips are coming. I think Euclyd will be able to do the inference chi…

GLM 5.2 is ~40B active parameters, which is what matters most for training cost.

for RL cost*

pretraining becomes more expensive actually as you make MoE models sparser (you need more tokens in the pretrain, and if you don't have that then you need to train for longer)

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#116

Post by impossiblefork »

sometimelurker wrote: post #114
impossiblefork wrote: post #43

I think what's actually needed is two things: an EU training infrastructure that allows training of 10T+ models, and an EU inference infrastructure that is sufficient that it's possible to do RL on them. This effectively reduces the problem to a specialized supercomputing infrastructure problem which I think is relatively easy to solve. I think the chips are coming. I think Euclyd will be able to do the inference chi…

Europe has asml

Yes, but what does that affect?

If we end up with a world where only US firms can use the latest LLMs and the latest LLMs are needed to keep up in the software world, or in making prototypes, then that's a whole series of fields which are blocked from us.

So I think we need to make sure that we no only can, but build frontier LLMs from scratch-- not RLed on foreign data, but genuinely from scratch.

Even from an economic point of view, I don't think a continuous outflow of ~200 USD/month for every office job is sustainable, and that's what we'd get if the plausible scenario is borne out. An inter-EU cost of 200 USD/month for every office job though, that's survivable.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#117

Post by sometimelurker »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #79
impossiblefork wrote: post #43

I think what's actually needed is two things: an EU training infrastructure that allows training of 10T+ models, and an EU inference infrastructure that is sufficient that it's possible to do RL on them. This effectively reduces the problem to a specialized supercomputing infrastructure problem which I think is relatively easy to solve. I think the chips are coming. I think Euclyd will be able to do the inference chi…

The big question is who is going to fund it? Is it tax payers money? If so how can they guarantee it’s not going to be another waste and corrupted disaster. Also EU is already late to the AI race and by the time the lawmakers starts to think about this, it would be game over

> The big question is who is going to fund it?

this feels like a small question, the money needed for this isn't that much (probably ~20b) and every country needs cyberwarfare abilities, especially automatable ones, so the military can pay for it. And its not like 10T models cant be used for anything else, so people who want ROI in health, chip development, all sorts of stuff

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#118

Post by sometimelurker »

impossiblefork wrote: post #116
sometimelurker wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has asml

Yes, but what does that affect? If we end up with a world where only US firms can use the latest LLMs and the latest LLMs are needed to keep up in the software world, or in making prototypes, then that's a whole series of fields which are blocked from us. So I think we need to make sure that we no only can, but build frontier LLMs from scratch-- not RLed on foreign data, but genuinely from scratch. Even from an econo…

asml is part of the chip supply chain; amsl has chip making talent, and EU needs more better chips to make more better ai

also an em-dash and genuinely in the same sentence? cmon bro how much claude have you been using?

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#119

Post by khurs »

Chu4eeno wrote: post #112
khurs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zurich is also Engineering (any many staff in Zurich and London will be from other countries temporarily working there).

Do they put offices in only non-EU European countries purpose?

Appears Switzerland as the lead guy there has lived in Switzerland for 10 years prior and probably refused to move (and he was previously at deep mind who also have researchers there so established talent pool)

https://www.greaterzuricharea.com/en/success-stories/anthrop...

London as the UK rolled out the carpet inviting them, plus deepmind created a talent pool and centre

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#120

Post by khurs »

graemep wrote: post #49
khurs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zurich is also Engineering (any many staff in Zurich and London will be from other countries temporarily working there).

Which makes it even more difficult to limit access to Americans. Deepmind was originally a British company and has R & D in multiple countries to it will be even more awkward with them. I have always thought the UK was too liberal in allowing foreign takeovers of key businesses. Arm and Deepmind are great examples of why.

Deepmind I can undertand, as it was early days and no guarantee of success? and they needed massive investment. But the decision to allow Arm to be sold was surprising.

But UK sells nearly everything - we need ongoing foreign investment.

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