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The European Social Stack

european.social

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Re: The European Social Stack

#111

Post by bluegatty »

znpy wrote: post #99
bluegatty wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally valid point - but there are a lot of other strategic consideration. Especially with 'Social' there are network externalizations like 'critical mass' - that actually compounds across a lot of things. No European country given size and language is going to be able to create something that resonates as well as the American variation beyond the critical mass needed, at least naturally. If 'French Facebook' starte…

> Requiring government actors to use 'Euro Mastadon' or whatever - it means school, students, parents come abard and then you have 'critical mass'. Not really. Reality is that people (eg: students) will have the "euro mastodon" (or whatever) AND the other social media accounts, and will drop the "euro mastodon" when not legally enforced anymore (eg: when finishing school). > Requiring 'open doc format' If you're talk…

You're misunderstanding the concept of critical mass as it relates.

People wanted to move to BlueSky, but they couldn't move away from the others because the critical mass did not shift.

I governing bodies require certain use, then the critical mass for those platforms then exist.

People don't need to go to the other platforms.

There's zero reason for Europeans to use Facebook.

Now Twitter is another story - but as we see with Russia, where they have 'engineered' the critical mass on Telegram, and where Twitter is 'available' - it works. Telegram is #1, and Twitter is #2.

The same would happen in Europe.

There are standards for various things, it doesn't matter where they originate from that much, any number of them can be adopted, the key is there has to be hard requirements for parties to support them.

If 'all government procurement' required participants t adhere to those standards, it'd open up for others to participate.

Re: The European Social Stack

#112

Post by drnick1 »

oaiey wrote: post #71
drnick1 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can register domain names anonymously. Sure, you will be asked for contact details (WHOIS), but no one verifies them.

You can be suite in some European countries if you have a web page without an impressum and latest your domain registration will have your credit card to track you. Obviously, not all cases can be traced back.

Then don't register a domain in those countries, and pay with crypto.

Re: The European Social Stack

#113

Post by anotherevan »

keiferski wrote: post #30
jstummbillig wrote: post #19

Here is an idea for a EU product: Build something that is great, and make it so good, that everyone, including US citizens, will want to use it. Your ethics can still be great, but don't make me feel like your product won't be. If you have to market "Europe" or privacy it probably won't be.

Yeah, basically no successful American social media company advertises itself as being American. And its users do not think of it as "an American company," they just think of it as its own thing.

Truth social is unsuccessful?

Re: The European Social Stack

#114

Post by ludicrousdispla »

rndm77be9f wrote: post #76
benrutter wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be true for social media, but there are 100s of American brands that make a large point of being thought of as an "American company" or "American made" goods.

Does the average non-HN type in Europe hold comparable pan-European or even plain National Pride? I think here of the German national relationship with their own flag and feel skeptical of a comparison here.

replace flag with football team

Re: The European Social Stack

#115

Post by penguin_booze »

keiferski wrote: post #30
jstummbillig wrote: post #19

Here is an idea for a EU product: Build something that is great, and make it so good, that everyone, including US citizens, will want to use it. Your ethics can still be great, but don't make me feel like your product won't be. If you have to market "Europe" or privacy it probably won't be.

Yeah, basically no successful American social media company advertises itself as being American. And its users do not think of it as "an American company," they just think of it as its own thing.

Calling it European signals that, for one, that it's not American. For some users, that in itself is an attraction.

Re: The European Social Stack

#116

Post by gls2ro »

lou1306 wrote: post #57

Perhaps relevant context: The EU commission just ignored the "Tech Sovereignty Package" it launched ~3 weeks ago, and explicitly referred open-source as a core element of their strategy, and endorsed W, another ATproto-based social that recently a) closed their code and b) ...had its CEO attend Davos. Make of that what you will.

About open source I think you missed reading the EU Open Source strategy _part_ of Tech Sovereignty Package.

Re: The European Social Stack

#117

Post by sneak »

daneel_w wrote: post #106
sneak wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t send the notification to an iOS app from a federated server. All notifications to apps on iOS must come via APNS and be delivered to APNS via mTLS with a client cert issued only to the developer/publisher of that one app. Each federated instance would need its own app.

Yes. Same for FCM/Android. It's not ideal, and it's not XMPP's shortcoming, but it's livable since we don't need to reveal the who or the what. And thankfully it's up to the individual user to balance their desire for automated notifications on mobile devices against their need to keep Google and Apple out of band.

automated notifications? be for real.

any messaging app that doesn’t notify in realtime is DOA.

Re: The European Social Stack

#118

Post by wqaatwt »

jstummbillig wrote: post #19

Here is an idea for a EU product: Build something that is great, and make it so good, that everyone, including US citizens, will want to use it. Your ethics can still be great, but don't make me feel like your product won't be. If you have to market "Europe" or privacy it probably won't be.

That doesn’t work when the incumbents are so entrenched.

You’d need to go the Chinese route and just ban everything to give the full market to domestic alternatives.

Re: The European Social Stack

#119

Post by wqaatwt »

cadamsdotcom wrote: post #109
jstummbillig wrote: post #19

Here is an idea for a EU product: Build something that is great, and make it so good, that everyone, including US citizens, will want to use it. Your ethics can still be great, but don't make me feel like your product won't be. If you have to market "Europe" or privacy it probably won't be.

Ah but for some reason that was missing from the principles. It is the ONLY thing that matters. Being European is a nice boost on the feelgood factor, if people even know. Anyone who ranks that above product quality is a minority - that’s why this has ~400 signatures not 4 million.

The product “quality” seems hardly relevant for social network services? Only the user base matters, otherwise Google Plus would have won against FB..

Re: The European Social Stack

#120

Post by wqaatwt »

wbl wrote: post #38
moffkalast wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't work. As soon as something great appears, US VCs immediately buy it and move it to the bay area. A fair few of the products you think are US grown probably aren't. If not, a competitor appears that is less constrained by regulations and can move faster, taking over most of the market instead.

US companies obey EU law when working in the EU. And there is a reason VC does not exist in Europe namely capital markets being divided.

Also extreme risk aversion and generally very conservative business culture stuck in 60s (just less accepting of innovation than back then)
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