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Hetzner Price Adjustment

docs.hetzner.com

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Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#111

Post by gchamonlive »

arcatech wrote: post #99
gchamonlive wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is faster too, but the question: is it worth the price? Those aren't the only metrics, quality and efficiency is also important. AIslop is of higher quality than devslop on average.

> AIslop is of higher quality than devslop on average. How did you come to that conclusion? That goes against everything I've heard from people who understand development. Every resource I can find about AI vs non-AI development comes to the exact opposite conclusion you did.

Devslop is spaghetti code that grows organically. AIslop is overly complicated code that someone neglected to read. I just distrust the former more than the latter.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#112

Post by gmerc »

duttish wrote: post #104
WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no AI bubble There is an engineered scarcity, billion dollar companies can't ramp up production? Murica is stuck depending on the good will of Korea and China for thinking rocks? le fucking mao

As I understand it ramping up a new fab takes a couple of years and several billion dollars. The last time they ramped up production prices had crashed back down by the the time the new fab was fully up and running, so this time they're betting that the scarcity will resolve itself like it did last time.

They are not ramping up.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#113

Post by karussell »

Wow. This is crazy. And not only much more expensive but the standardization means you have to buy more disk if you e.g. just need more RAM or similar.

And does the standardization mean that I can no longer buy extra hardware?

https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/dedicated-se...

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#115

Post by benjiro29 »

drewg123 wrote: post #59
eugenekolo wrote: post #42

It really is an absolute massive jump. Have no clue what's going on in the back to warrant a 3x increase... 25-50%, sure.. but 3x is wild.

The AI bubble has increased the prices of nand and ram by a factor of 4, so a 3x increase seems reasonable. Companies that are not big enough to have long term contracts with ram/nand vendors have been hit really, really hard by this.

These prices have absolute nothing to do anymore with memory prices. Do not forget that Hetzner already increased the setup fees by a factor of 4x before to compensate for the price. And also servers getting price increases.

It seems they have shifted by reducing the setup fees, and increasing the monthly costs. As this generates more revenue. And its easy to prove this...

AX42 ... Its 8700GE that has gone from 65 Euro to 225 Euro. With the setup fee now being 112 Euro instead of 225 Euro. It has 64GB memory, and 1TB storage. The storage even in todays market is 100 Euro. The memory is 644 Euro.

Do the math ... Hetzner servers had a hardware payback periode of between 9 to 11 month if you took the market value. This calculation has always been very stable over the 20 years i used Hetzner.

This new price, reduced the hardware payback periode to ~4 month. It seems to be that Hetzer is trying to use the memory price issues, as a excuse. The revenue of those same servers now increased to a insane level. More revenue with less hardware.

The real issue is that a lot of companies are moving from US hosting to EU hosting because of the problems with the US. Hetzner sees this as the perfect time to cash in on Enterprise customers.

They have been trying to replace the "cheap" normal consumers with enterprise. This trend has been going on for a while already.

Every customer that now leaves, is a server they can rent out to business customers.

If you want to see the same thing, look up what happened to Microsoft/Github Copilot where they turn around has been sudden and very strong, with a clear goal of moving everything to enterprise.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#116

Post by MagicMoonlight »

drewg123 wrote: post #59
eugenekolo wrote: post #42

It really is an absolute massive jump. Have no clue what's going on in the back to warrant a 3x increase... 25-50%, sure.. but 3x is wild.

The AI bubble has increased the prices of nand and ram by a factor of 4, so a 3x increase seems reasonable. Companies that are not big enough to have long term contracts with ram/nand vendors have been hit really, really hard by this.

[dead]

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#117

Post by whywhywhywhy »

locknitpicker wrote: post #89
theturtletalks wrote: post #40

I was signing up for Hetzner years ago and it asked me to upload my passport to use their service. At that same time, I was reading about this story about WireCard. It was like Stripe for Europe and worth billions. Turns out it was run by a Russian spy network and was all a sham. That video alleged Germany’s bureaucracy is filled with Russian agents and this can be traced back to the East/West Berlin days. To save a…

> I was signing up for Hetzner years ago and it asked me to upload my passport to use their service. I don't really understand what bothers you so much about providing a photo of a "passport" (if you are an European citizen they require a ID card) but credit card info didn't registered as a concern worth noting. Can you explain what is the difference?

If there isn't a difference shouldn't my credit card be enough?

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#118

Post by icyfox »

MinimalAction wrote: post #103

I understand this is ultimately due to AI boom. A couple of naive questions: 1. What's the bottleneck in ramping up RAM production? Is it the availability of silicon itself? Or the factories are at capacity? 2. Is this supposed to ease up despite the AI boom? Definitely would ease up if busted.

1. Factory limits basically. There's a limit to the amount of fabrication lines that can create ram. Combined with the market incentives right now to make high bandwidth memory (HBM) over server memory (DRAM)... HBM starts as DRAM dies, so it competes with normal DRAM for wafer starts / cleanroom fab capacity.

2. Eventually more plants will come on line. Most of the main manufacturers have announced expansions but these can take O(years) to come online.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#119

Post by baba_vanga »

"And at that time, that's what everybody did. If a hotel wanted electricity, they had their own electric generator. And I looked at this, and I thought, this is what computation is like today. Everybody has their own data center. And that's not gonna last. It makes no sense. You're gonna buy compute off the grid. That's AWS."

- Jeff Bezos

There are just 3 or 4 DDRAM manufacturers (SK Hynix, Samsung, Micron). They fully intend to make it impractical to purchase a server outside of the hyperscalers.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#120

Post by dboreham »

stephenhuey wrote: post #26
binarymax wrote: post #14

This is just the reality of hardware costs now. RAM and Disk are scarce, prices have skyrocketed. I wonder how much leverage the hyperscalers like AWS/GCP/Azure have on their own supply chain to keep costs level in their clouds.

Inching closer to Vultr prices. There are some Rails projects I might have later this year, and I had already been thinking of putting them onto Vultr via Hatchbox since Vultr offered a managed db. Maybe for some stuff that I can run a Rails 8 Solid Stack app with just sqlite, I'd use Hetzner. I tested both with Hatchbox but have nothing in production on either yet and generally use Heroku and Render still. Has anyon…

I use it as a hosting target for automated deployment tooling we wrote. Tools were originally Digitalocean-only and I wondered if LLMs could add support for a second provider, so asked Claude to add Vultr which it did very nicely. But other than run the automated tests (which create VMs, DNS entries, check validity and tear down) and pay the monthly bill, we haven't yet used them for production deployments.
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