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Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

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Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#111

Post by remus »

kubb wrote: post #105
beloch wrote: post #94

If a politically stable nation with a good international reputation were to guarantee government respect for data privacy for data centres housed on its soil and run by its companies, that nation could become the Swiss bankers of data. Rolling your own "digital sovereignty" is not going to be cheap for most nations, and many other nations simply won't be trusted by anyone, least of all their own citizens. It's a bit…

You could take your analogy further, and consider why the Swiss banking isn’t so opaque anymore. Hint: people who did really inhuman things used that system to store their profits, and the Swiss society, developed and stable as it is, decided that they don’t want to bear the moral cost of it anymore.

> ...decided that they don’t want to bear the moral cost of it anymore.

And of course the external pressure to loosen banking secrecy laws has been huge, particularly from the US e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBS_tax_evasion_controversies

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#112

Post by graemep »

koonsolo wrote: post #91
graemep wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvotes for stating a reasonable, and probably correct argument. Europe's biggest problem (I do not mean just the EU, I mean everyone from the UK to Russia) is that it is in denial about its decline, weakness and irrelevance to the rest of the world. The UK is a bit of an exception in being aware of it and actually talking about it. That is about it.

We Europeans are very well aware that we need to strengthen our position in the world, both economically and militarily. I would say we are making progress on both. China is not happy with recent EU decision for example. Let's see how far China and US will go when access to the European consumer market will be resticted. Let's see how well China and US can adapt to modern drone warfare when Ukrainians have the expert…

Making progress how? High economic growth? No. An effective military? Nothing compared to the 1980s.

The UK's defence minister resigned today because of the prime minister's refusal to adequately fund defence.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#113

Post by notabotiswear »

mrtksn wrote: post #89
j_maffe wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because whoever was responsible for that would have had paid for it in front of the American legal system or American people That literally never happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_massacre?wprov=sfla1 > By June 17, 2008, six defendants had their cases dropped and a seventh was found not guilty.[5] The only one of the eight charged to face punishment was Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich. On October 3, 200…

It doesn't matter, that was the perception and the expectation. Americans themselves were used to seen as blameless, since those things were against what US stands for.

Dude, seriously, what are you smoking? Some nutcases literally flew a plane into civillian buildings as a response to the works of these Washington minority.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#114

Post by wvh »

laughing_man wrote: post #15
fc417fc802 wrote: post #12

This is entirely the wrong lesson to take from this. Why are we still using a plaintext protocol in this day and age? Why can we not get an E2EE addition to the email protocol with full backwards compatibility? Yes, I understand that it would be imperfect since inevitably not all servers would support it thus forcing additional understanding and decisions on the end user. No, I don't care that a user other than mysel…

Getting from here to there is going to be tough, but I agree 100%. Not only should email be E2EE, but it should include a certificate scheme such that you know the person purporting to be the sender is actually the sender.

PGP had the right idea, but the system is too hard for the average person.

With "system" I refer to building a web (or multiple!) of trust, based on parameters that you decide upon.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#115

Post by SidewaysView »

ForHackernews wrote: post #97
j_maffe wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> was to me a shining example of progress and humanity. Which country was the US bombing to the ground at this period you're reminiscing on?

American soldiers committed the Mỹ Lai Massacre. American soldiers trained their weapons on those Americans to halt the killing. America has always contained multitudes, but chose to see the best in itself and the world saw it reflected in that light. One of the most shocking things to me was visiting Vietnam and going to the Museum of American War Crimes in Ho Chi Minh City and almost the first thing you see walking…

The constitution is a piece of paper written by dead white men.

Principles have never been about that. The world has never been about that. It's never been something anyone who wasn't "that kind of nerd" could believe in. Not even up for debate.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#116

Post by mrtksn »

notabotiswear wrote: post #113
mrtksn wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter, that was the perception and the expectation. Americans themselves were used to seen as blameless, since those things were against what US stands for.

Dude, seriously, what are you smoking? Some nutcases literally flew a plane into civillian buildings as a response to the works of these Washington minority.

I think you need to read more carefully, you are arguing against things you imagine I said. Write down what you believe you are objecting to, try to find that in the things I wrote.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#117

Post by embedding-shape »

remus wrote: post #111
kubb wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could take your analogy further, and consider why the Swiss banking isn’t so opaque anymore. Hint: people who did really inhuman things used that system to store their profits, and the Swiss society, developed and stable as it is, decided that they don’t want to bear the moral cost of it anymore.

> ...decided that they don’t want to bear the moral cost of it anymore. And of course the external pressure to loosen banking secrecy laws has been huge, particularly from the US e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBS_tax_evasion_controversies

But ultimately the Swiss decides what Switzerland does, and the population deciding they didn't want that, was the deciding factor. Been pressure on Switzerland about that for a long time, from many countries, and in fact still there is, as many still think they're not doing enough. Not everything in the world happens because of the US :)

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#118

Post by EdiX »

kergonath wrote: post #106
EdiX wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free trade didn't stop Russia from invading Ukraine and it didn't convert China into a democracy. And the india's deal is saddling us with more third world immigration that will only make things worse. It seems to me that this is still all the EU not keeping up with where the world is going. We started drafting the mercosur agreement 27 years ago so we finalize it and call it a victory, all that it's probably going t…

> Free trade didn't stop Russia from invading Ukraine and it didn't convert China into a democracy. We do not need China to be a democracy. That’s a matter for the Chinese people. Imposing a form of government from outside rarely works and is really counter-productive most of the time.

The point of all this free trade ideology is that it would make the whole world into peaceful liberal democracies. If it doesn't do that, why are we doing it? We're just making ourselves dependent on dangerous dicators while simultaneously enriching them.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#119

Post by cookiengineer »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #57
pepperoni_pizza wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is getting charged for this in any way.

Not yet )

I kinda like where you are going with this.

But I think the only way to establish these laws would be an IT competent judicative branch of the government... which, as we all know, is pretty incompetent in these manners.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#120

Post by lII1lIlI11ll »

beloch wrote: post #94

If a politically stable nation with a good international reputation were to guarantee government respect for data privacy for data centres housed on its soil and run by its companies, that nation could become the Swiss bankers of data. Rolling your own "digital sovereignty" is not going to be cheap for most nations, and many other nations simply won't be trusted by anyone, least of all their own citizens. It's a bit…

It is not as simple as banking - people tend to want low-latency and high-speed connection which necessitate the data center to be in close proximity. Which basically means that founding a country with strong data protection laws somewhere in Antarctic won't get you many clients in Europe.
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