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Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

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Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#111

Post by allthetime »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #31
zuzululu wrote: post #25

what is bill c 22 in a nutshell for non canadians like me ? is this like the patriot act in usa ?

Basically the same idiocy that the British gov't has also tried to enact around making actually encrypted communication impossible, and giving them the rights to access metadata on the public's communications without warrant, etc.

How is it possible to make encrypted communication impossible? It’s (for us) trivial to encrypt and sign a message with GPG for instance. Does this allow the government to come to my house if I trade these messages with friends?

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#112

Post by cmrdporcupine »

allthetime wrote: post #111
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically the same idiocy that the British gov't has also tried to enact around making actually encrypted communication impossible, and giving them the rights to access metadata on the public's communications without warrant, etc.

How is it possible to make encrypted communication impossible? It’s (for us) trivial to encrypt and sign a message with GPG for instance. Does this allow the government to come to my house if I trade these messages with friends?

Regulation wise, is what I mean. They want backdoors, as in the ability to demand decrypted content, which as you and I both know is not possible if you've built the system with zero-knowledge on the server side ala Signal etc. As far as I understand the proposed bill, a service like that would not be legal to operate in Canada. Which is why Signal and Proton and others have said they would just leave the Canadian market.

The Liberals have noted they may be open to amendments to the language around encryption but not to other modifications.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#113

Post by 0x696C6961 »

EmbarrassedHelp wrote: post #65
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the conservatives are supporting this bill as well... right? And when Harper was in power they were trying to push something similar? And that the petition linked here is an NDP petition? Partisan grandstanding won't fix the issue. A mobilized public will.

Both the conservatives and the NDP have been fighting against Bill C-22.

That's how it's always gone. The people in power push it and the opposition fights it "for the people".

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#114

Post by Tiktaalik »

giantg2 wrote: post #16
alephnerd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then will act surprised as Canada's tech sector finds it even harder to create any consumer facing businesses... That's not why an indigenous Canadian tech industry is non-existent. Heck, China, Israel, India, South Korea, and Taiwan all have larger tech industries than Canada and have much stricter internet speech requirements (and in Israel and Taiwan's case are much smaller than Canada population wise). Canadian…

A lot of the Indian tech industry is really just the tech industry from other countries being outsourced to there.

Describes Canada too!

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#115

Post by cmrdporcupine »

tamimio wrote: post #110
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, ever the same since the Hudsons Bay Company and the Northwest Company ran the whole place. Now it's just the Westons and Rogers and Bell instead. Some years ago when I first moved to my farm out here in the Hamilton area there was a meeting about zoning bylaws, as the city was finally -- after 20 years -- harmonizing the rural zoning laws after the municipal amalgamation that Mike Harris had forced on them back…

> It's not a partisan thing. It's not liberal vs conservative vs whatever. It's just some weird mindset that wants to see credentials for everything, and the best credential you can have is your proximity to already existing power privilege or wealth. Bingo, you nailed it! I like how you described it in few words as I have been trying to articulate that for a while, as some people I know they blame it in liberal or w…

To be fair, Americans have their own equally strong dysfunctions, and there's a lot of variance from state to state, industry to industry.

And the education system in the US is way less egalitarian and if you're talking about access to investment, etc. or jobs, proximity to an "Ivy League" school is super important blah blah blah.

I mean, it's a dangerous game to be playing stereotypes generally. But there's structurally economic factors at work.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#116

Post by Tiktaalik »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #101
tamimio wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because US has far better opportunities and more money. My personal experience in doing business in Canada: each industry is monopolized by two or three companies, you need to get their “blessing” before you can do anything in that sector. Government contracts aren’t much, but even with that, it’s nepotism based, you will get a contract knowing someone who will indirectly get benefits from you, for example you will h…

Yep, ever the same since the Hudsons Bay Company and the Northwest Company ran the whole place. Now it's just the Westons and Rogers and Bell instead. Some years ago when I first moved to my farm out here in the Hamilton area there was a meeting about zoning bylaws, as the city was finally -- after 20 years -- harmonizing the rural zoning laws after the municipal amalgamation that Mike Harris had forced on them back…

The wild thing is that Canada is absolutely not alone in having this sort of insanely restrictive land use regulatory environment, as you hear similar stories from the UK (see: Clarkson's Farm) and even the USA (see: restrictive SF zoning). So the question for me is how the USA and other countries with similar regulatory regimes do well in spite of these things.

With the USA a possible answer is that the scale and diversity of the market adds more competition (ie. low regulatory areas) that Canada doesn't have.

Or it's possible that all these countries have awful zoning but while this is awful the factors that make tech a success in the USA are unrelated and dominate this (eg. unmatched wealth and financing)

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#117

Post by Tiktaalik »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #21
alephnerd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then will act surprised as Canada's tech sector finds it even harder to create any consumer facing businesses... That's not why an indigenous Canadian tech industry is non-existent. Heck, China, Israel, India, South Korea, and Taiwan all have larger tech industries than Canada and have much stricter internet speech requirements (and in Israel and Taiwan's case are much smaller than Canada population wise). Canadian…

> Canadian tech is nonexistent because every Canadian pension fund, family office, and bank prefers to invest in American equities over Canadian equities. Off-topic but I suspect it's also that oil and gas and real estate are the "easy" money in Canada and that's where investment goes. Canadian investors are risk adverse because they can be. That and there's a colonial-descended cultural bias towards credentials and…

I think there's a huge bias toward this "easy money" yea. I mean the Canadian government is in a bind with these tariff issues and what do they reflexively reach for? Pump more oil and gas. It's the easy fast, simple solution to problems and so every government returns to this well to the detriment of other industries that don't receive the same attention.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#120

Post by llm_nerd »

slopinthebag wrote: post #98
olalonde wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the central bank, the country is "not clearly in a recession"[0]. [0] https://globalnews.ca/news/11897931/bank-of-canada-rate-anno...

I'm skeptical of central bankers trying to sugarcoat the fact that we are in a "technical" recession. If you look at per-capita GDP it's lower than it was four years ago and if you talk to regular Canadians you'll come away feeling like we've been in a recession for years. I would say per-capita is a better metric because it better reflects what individuals are experiencing, whereas Canada's overall GDP has been bols…

Why did you casually jump to per capita GDP? Per capita GDP is finally going up after a long regression, and one of the reasons Canada slipped to a very small recession is that hundreds of thousands of migrants are leaving the country, their visas expired. When you remove a lot of people that were consuming housing and food and cell plans and delivery doordash, GDP drops.

You have two conflicting complaints simultaneously, and you should make up your mind. Were you happy when Canada's GDP was increasing courtesy of mass migration?

So are you happy with the changes? I'm super happy with it. I'm also quite pleased with how well Canada has weathered a criminal felon pedo that has tried his hardest to hurt us, many Americans blissfully oblivious.

And yup, the many tentacles are government are going to keep making laws and planning trains and doing pipeline projects and countless other programs -- they aren't restricted to whatever the imaginary pet is of a particular complainer -- and amazingly they can competently do all of this simultaneously! Not always in a way that everyone agrees with, though.

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