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Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

arstechnica.com

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Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#111

Post by tristanj »

belorn wrote: post #110
conartist6 wrote: post #25

I just want to confirm that people don't think hitting civilian drinking water as retaliation for a military helicopter is normal or ok

There should be two rules in wars. Do not hit civilian infrastructure, and do not put military infrastructure near civilian infrastructure. Both should be a war crime, both during and outside of wars. Military infrastructure should also not be dependent on civilian infrastructure as that blur the line between military and civilian. It is an open question what media and thus we the public should do when nations ignore…

Your argument is poorly thought out.

All civilian infrastructure is dual-use. Militaries will use civilian roads, highways, bridges, and airports when necessary. Militaries use civilian water facilities, buy fuel at civilian petrol stations, and power military equipment using the civilian electrical grid. Militaries frequently commandeer civilian infrastructure when necessary. Without providing a clear definition of what is civilian infrastructure and what is military infrastructure, all civilian infrastructure can be considered military infrastructure.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#112

Post by lern_too_spel »

spwa4 wrote: post #101
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like your problem with the horrible Iranian regime is that your own regime is not allowed to be as horrible as them.

No of course not. The problem is that the point of morality is to achieve a just world. Therefore using morality to allow one side to commit more crimes must be immoral, even if the actions taken to prevent are pretty bad ones. Any moral system must allow for this if it is to exist. In other words: shooting someone to prevent a murder is not immoral. Despite the fact that shooting someone is obviously immoral under a…

The problem is that you believe that everybody being affected is on a particular side. Collective punishment is a Geneva Convention war crime, and it is immoral because it causes more harm than good.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#113

Post by brokenmachine »

rbanffy wrote: post #102
everforward wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assembly lines are much faster but less flexible, which is probably a bad fit for something evolving as quickly as drone weapons. A basement lab can start making new drones as soon as you can get them the components. An assembly line will take months to get any new machinery it needs, set it up, ensure production works, figure out how to QA it at scale, etc. It doesn’t matter if you can make 8 million drones if the e…

You need to make the hardware modular and the lines easy to change.

So obvious! Why didn't they think of that?

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#114

Post by brokenmachine »

watwut wrote: post #92
tristanj wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [The claim that the US has fought multiple proxy wars against the PRoC] is a beyond absurd claim. It's easy to list these off the top of my head. There are multiple. Obviously the Korean War, China sent over a million personnel to aid the DPRK and directly battled the US. The Vietnam war was a proxy war, China had over 300,000 troops in North Vietnam, preventing the US from invading the north and ending the conflic…

USA is not Arming Ukraine anymore nor sending them financial help. Only Europe does that. USA is even refusing deliver arms Europe already bought and paid for. > The current conflict is also a proxy war. Without China's support for Iran, this war could not have happened. This is nonsense. War happened with or without Chinas support, because American leadership and Israel wanted it. Iran was not attacked because of Ch…

Please look up the difference between losing and loosing.

Call me pedantic but it just makes it unpleasant to read.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#115

Post by [deleted] »

inglor_cz wrote: post #68
Steltek wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Threats from who? Canada? Mexico? For the past ~150 years, the US has really only had overseas conflicts with few threats to domestic territory. The best argument you could make it the Cuba Missile Crisis, I suppose? If your immediate plan is to stop fighting in far away places, then drones aren't really a worry.

Threats to your allies, for example. "If your immediate plan is to stop fighting in far away places, then drones aren't really a worry." Yes, you can dismantle the entire coalition your presidents put together for 70+ years, but at some cost. The US economy is heavily intertwined with the rest of the world, and it probably cannot decouple from China AND forty democratic countries that used to be US allies at the same…

[deleted]

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#116

Post by defrost »

brokenmachine wrote: post #114
watwut wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is not Arming Ukraine anymore nor sending them financial help. Only Europe does that. USA is even refusing deliver arms Europe already bought and paid for. > The current conflict is also a proxy war. Without China's support for Iran, this war could not have happened. This is nonsense. War happened with or without Chinas support, because American leadership and Israel wanted it. Iran was not attacked because of Ch…

Please look up the difference between losing and loosing. Call me pedantic but it just makes it unpleasant to read.

You should assume that a 13 year HN veteran likely knows the difference, is human, and had a mild bout of misfiring fingers.

Small beer in the greater scheme ... and unable to be edited / corrected by the user in question some 12 hours after the comment.

If you're realy that upsit, cun I seggust you emraile HN @ Ycombingnater and ask for a m0d to intravein?

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#117

Post by brokenmachine »

tristanj wrote: post #108
Hikikomori wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Iran would largely be left to itself if it did not pursue hostile foreign policy against countries in the region. Nice to show how ignorant of history you are.

Same to you. The events you are referring to occurred over half a century ago. Iran has had far more than enough time to move on, and adapt its foreign policy. Attacking the majority of your neighbors in 2026, including countries who are pursuing friendly relations to you, is a stupid foreign policy.

Weren't they targeting US bases in those countries?

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#118

Post by tristanj »

brokenmachine wrote: post #117
tristanj wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same to you. The events you are referring to occurred over half a century ago. Iran has had far more than enough time to move on, and adapt its foreign policy. Attacking the majority of your neighbors in 2026, including countries who are pursuing friendly relations to you, is a stupid foreign policy.

Weren't they targeting US bases in those countries?

Initially yes, but then Iran began targeting everything of value nearby. Bridges in Bahrain, Dubai airport (struck 4-5 times), apartment buildings in Dubai, desalination plants in Kuwait, schools in Azerbaijan, LNG facilities in Qatar, pumping stations in Saudi Arabia, power plants in UAE, oil storage in Oman, etc.

Azerbaijan has no US military bases, it has no Israeli military bases, it has no ties to the current conflict, yet Iran still fired drones at a school in Azerbaijan, without justification.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#119

Post by defrost »

tristanj wrote: post #118
brokenmachine wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weren't they targeting US bases in those countries?

Initially yes, but then Iran began targeting everything of value nearby. Bridges in Bahrain, Dubai airport (struck 4-5 times), apartment buildings in Dubai, desalination plants in Kuwait, schools in Azerbaijan, LNG facilities in Qatar, pumping stations in Saudi Arabia, power plants in UAE, oil storage in Oman, etc. Azerbaijan has no US military bases, it has no Israeli military bases, it has no ties to the current co…

Near a school and "allegedly"

  Azerbaijan’s Ministry of Defense stated that four Iranian drones attacked Nakhchivan, one of which was neutralized by the Azerbaijani army while others targeted civilian infrastructure. One drone fell on the terminal building of Nakhchivan International Airport, while another landed near a school building in the village of Shakarabad, according to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Azerbaijan, resulting in damage to the airport and injuries to four civilians.
..

  Iran's foreign minister Abbas Araghchi and Iranian diplomat Kazem Gharibabadi denied that Iran had attacked Azerbaijan. Araghchi suggested that it was an Israeli false flag operation to draw Azerbaijan into the conflict with Iran.
~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_alleged_Iranian_strikes_o...

In the volume of drones fired this appears as little more than four wayward drones targeted as a result of an accident or miscommunication - the best guesses being bad intel about an anti Iran meeting or a deliberate false flag.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#120

Post by tristanj »

defrost wrote: post #119
tristanj wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Initially yes, but then Iran began targeting everything of value nearby. Bridges in Bahrain, Dubai airport (struck 4-5 times), apartment buildings in Dubai, desalination plants in Kuwait, schools in Azerbaijan, LNG facilities in Qatar, pumping stations in Saudi Arabia, power plants in UAE, oil storage in Oman, etc. Azerbaijan has no US military bases, it has no Israeli military bases, it has no ties to the current co…

Near a school and "allegedly" Azerbaijan’s Ministry of Defense stated that four Iranian drones attacked Nakhchivan, one of which was neutralized by the Azerbaijani army while others targeted civilian infrastructure. One drone fell on the terminal building of Nakhchivan International Airport, while another landed near a school building in the village of Shakarabad, according to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Azerb…

You addressed one item from a list of ten examples. Why ignore the rest of the list?

Dubai airport was struck four or five times. Qatar's LNG facilities. Kuwait's desalination plants. Bahrain's bridges. Saudi pumping stations. UAE power plants. Oman oil storage. You haven't mentioned any of these.

Back to Azerbaijan - your own explanation convicts Iran. Claiming the strikes were due to "bad intel about an anti Iran meeting" -- do you even realize what you are saying? That means that Iran chose to fire drones at a target on Azerbaijani soil. That's the definition of an attack. You are proving my point.

And Iran's FM denying it and blaming Israel is precisely what Iran does every single time. They've run that same story dozens of times on attributed strikes. Using that as your defense shows how gullible you are.

Iran denied they shot down Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752, killing 176 civilians; do you believe them? Are you that gullible?

Iran denied launching missiles toward Diego Garcia, calling it an Israeli false flag attack; do you believe them?

Iran's denied its drones strikes on Omani ports, then a day later Iran's FM admitted it and apologized, then the next day Iran fired another volley of drones at Oman. Iran has given up pretending, and they now openly place mines in Omani waters.

Furthermore, your "false flag theory" is flawed. For your "false flag theory" to work, Israel not only launched the drones undetected, but Azerbaijan's own government is either complicit in the lie or they were duped. That's an extraordinary claim, requiring extraordinary evidence. Yet you provide zero evidence that Azerbaijan is lying, and zero evidence of Israeli involvement.

Azerbaijan's own Ministry of Defense confirmed the strikes by four Iranian drones. The Azerbaijani Foreign Ministry confirmed a drone hit near a school. Iran denies it because that is their MO, not because it didn't happen.

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