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Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

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Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#111

Post by SubmarineClub »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #49

"Think of the children!" - Say the 40-year-old millennials who were exposed to the Wild West of internet content as children and are still fine. "We can't censor the internet on their devices!" - There's a $2.5B market in parental censorship software. You can censor their devices. "Our child will become a pariah without the internet!" - In what way, exactly? They still go to school, still play sports, still go to che…

> Say the 40-year-old millennials who were exposed to the Wild West of internet content as children and are still fine.

Prior to college, my only computer was the crappy family pc in a corner of the living room. Only had a flip-phone until college too.

That’s a completely different world than kids growing up glued to smartphones, and screens generally, from elementary school.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#112

Post by vorpalhex »

Tade0 wrote: post #55
Hugsbox wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this I will seriously never understand. When I was a kid, if my mother didn't want me doing something then she would make sure I couldn't do it. Is nobody parenting their children anymore? Do they just let them do whatever they want these days? I've got a 2 year old of my own and can't imagine just handing him an iPad and ignoring him all day like I see other parents do. I can't tell if it's laziness, or ignora…

Co-working space coworker went once to a school to teach kids about online safety and such. One of the exercises was to check out what you can and can't do with a locked-down smartphone. Several minutes later the kids figured out how to bypass parental controls using ChatGPT and the method spread like wildfire. I recall defying my father's orders regularly. Teenagers who set their mind to something can be amazingly p…

"If I see you on social media, I'm grounding you for two weeks with no phone."

You can't fix a behavior issue with tech, just like you can't fix your computer by being good.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#113

Post by AlexandrB »

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #27

"with nine out of 10 parents saying they are in favour of a ban in response to a government consultation" I wonder why those 90% of parents don't cut their children off from social media right now. They have the power to do it.

> They have the power to do it.

Do they? It seems like schools are pushing tech and "ed-tech" in schools pretty hard while being typically incompetent at actually controlling how students use it[1].

Some choice exerpts:

> Lisa Sunbury is a professor of early childhood education in Santa Cruz, California, and she had a child at Mission Hill Middle School. Her 7th grade daughter has a set of serious issues that require an IEP. Lisa did her part at home, enforcing the low-screen policy. One element of this plan was supposed to be minimal access to school devices and a clear requirement that the device be inaccessible outside of certain classes. This was all on doctor’s orders.

> Yet, Sunbury would regularly find her daughter awake at 3am, playing video games on the school Chromebook that she wasn’t supposed to have. She discovered a prohibited TikTok account, made on the school device, with dance videos posted from gym class using that same device.

> Beverly Hyde, a parent in Concord, North Carolina, was explicitly told that if her son wasn’t going to use his Chromebook, “he will just sit alone and spend the day doing nothing.”

> And this was no empty threat. Linda in Texas discovered that while her doctor-ordered opt-out request for her 2nd grader was technically being honored, the school wasn’t providing any alternative instruction. They were just “having her sit and draw while the other kids were online.”

[1] https://www.persuasion.community/p/inside-the-anti-tech-rebe...

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#114

Post by smelendez »

delusional wrote: post #89
tombot wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don’t know why there isn’t a brand that’s capitalising on this. Messaging, calls, maps, notes but no way to take or view images. Marketed simply from a global brand.

Because of the ostracization problem. Kids are ruthless, and failure to conform is swiftly punished.

Images are also a huge part of messaging. For memes obviously, but also other communication (here’s the flyer for the event, look what the teacher wrote on my exam, should I get this gift for mom, look what my significant other sent me — what do you think I should say?), etc.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#115

Post by rayiner »

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #27

"with nine out of 10 parents saying they are in favour of a ban in response to a government consultation" I wonder why those 90% of parents don't cut their children off from social media right now. They have the power to do it.

That's like arguing against bans on alcohol and cigarette sales to minors because parents "have the power" to ban it for their kids themselves. There is a role for the state to help parents socialize their children properly.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#116

Post by dghlsakjg »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #107
pjc50 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect they don't really; once you give a teen a smartphone your control over what websites they visit ends. (you will reply "don't do that then") But also: cutting one kid off from social networks ostracises them. The parents recognize it's a collective action problem.

Don't do it then. :) It's not hard. If they need to be contacted get them a dumb phone. And yes, my kids will miss out. They will miss out on their attention span being destroyed, their ability to critically think destroyed, body issues, radicalization, horrible influences, etc... My children will miss out on all that and I'm very glad that will be the case. I'm not sure why other parents are rushing to destroy their…

Or they’ll be mildly resourceful and pickup a cheap Walmart phone, or a friend’s old phone and learn that they can’t be open with you.

I ran a summer camp for teenagers. They know how to get around that stuff if they want. They know how to hide it from their parents to keep access.

You’ll do far better to explain how these things are harmful, and help them make decisions that are healthy.

Below a certain age I’m sure it works for a time, but you will eventually have to find a balance.

That’s why parents want bans. Their kids are going to go where the other kids are. If they are all banned on instagram, they won’t care about finding a way onto a platform where none of their friends are.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#117

Post by rayiner »

everdrive wrote: post #104
pjc50 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect they don't really; once you give a teen a smartphone your control over what websites they visit ends. (you will reply "don't do that then") But also: cutting one kid off from social networks ostracises them. The parents recognize it's a collective action problem.

Quite a twist, no? This generations of parents are telling their children "Well all your friends are jumping off a bridge, so you need to as well."

The generations of parents who came up with the original bridge hypothetical also worked to have the government ban alcohol and cigarette sales to minors.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#118

Post by technothrasher »

CivBase wrote: post #52
goodcanadian wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it is arguably dangerous to not let your teen have a phone in a time when payphones (and to a great extent landlines) no longer exist.

Payphones were mostly extinct even when I was a kid. I didn't have a cellphone either and smartphones didn't exist yet, except for the extremely rare Blackberry. But it wsn't a problem because basically every establishment around me had a landline phone I could use in an emergency. Now even landlines are extinct because just about everyone has their own phone on them at all times. Phones are easier to come by now mor…

Even when I was teen back in the 1980s while payphones were still going strong, they weren't everywhere you wanted them to be. My mother had a standing rule that if I was going to be out past 10pm, I had to call her to let her know. Depending upon where I was, it was often a pain to find a payphone before 10pm so I didn't get in trouble. If I had an emergency, it wasn't at all guaranteed I'd be near enough to a payphone for it to be helpful.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#119

Post by pwg »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #93
bluGill wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really because nearly every adult has a phone with unlimited calling, and will allow you to make a call from their phone. I don't want my kids to be someplace where there are not some responsible adults around (drunk adults are not responsible) Note that I agree with your point overall. My kids have phones for times when they are away and might need to contact me. I'm just saying it isn't as bad as it sounds.

>Not really because nearly every adult has a phone with unlimited calling, and will allow you to make a call from their phone. I don't want my kids to be someplace where there are not some responsible adults around (drunk adults are not responsible) I remember about 10 or 12 years ago, I'd answer every incoming call. Many were wrong numbers (guy who had the phone number before we was, I kid you not, some sort of wine…

> a surprising number of robot calls match my own exchange number (why? what's the point?).

The robocallers have found that if the fake caller id given matches the area code and exchange of the number being called, that more of the recipients are willing to answer.

And from a robocaller's perspective, getting folks to answer is critical to being able to transfer them to someone in the scam boiler room for reaping.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#120

Post by esseph »

pjc50 wrote: post #32
CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #27

"with nine out of 10 parents saying they are in favour of a ban in response to a government consultation" I wonder why those 90% of parents don't cut their children off from social media right now. They have the power to do it.

I suspect they don't really; once you give a teen a smartphone your control over what websites they visit ends. (you will reply "don't do that then") But also: cutting one kid off from social networks ostracises them. The parents recognize it's a collective action problem.

> But also: cutting one kid off from social networks ostracises them.

2 of my 3 have never touched social media are are healthy, functioning adults with jobs and friends.

FOMO chasing Jones family bullshit.

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