Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

leoveanu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 221 posts

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#111

Post by zozbot234 »

joe_mamba wrote: post #43
blfr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there was a whole idea about civilizing and pacifying the world through economic cooperation that would foster middle class in countries across the world that would then in turn make them democratize and become peaceful trade partners. It didn't quite work out so now people are looking for other strategies.

>then in turn make them democratize Most non western countries lack the foundations of western democracy, and you can't force that onto them neither peacefully not through war. The west has tried and failed for 40+ years to do this, it doesn't work, time to drop it and let them self govern the way they always have. Stop trying to export our version of democracy onto others. Plus, the main reason they exported manufac…

> Most non western countries lack the foundations of western democracy, and you can't force that onto them

Several East Asian countries managed to democratize successfully up thru the 1980s and are extremely successful today, so this is not just a uniform failure story. Even mainland China might still come around (at least partially) as it gains a true massive middle class by Western standards, which it's still very far from today. Southeast Asia is also doing comparatively quite well.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#112

Post by Levitz »

tcp_handshaker wrote: post #29
Levitz wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can legally act against one, not against the other. Not exactly a hard question.

Looking forward to the outcome of those legal processes againt the CEOs, that sit behind Trump at the inauguration. After they stole all the knowledge in the world to train their models. And the current administration is drunk on SpaceX pre IPO shares...how did they get them? "Trump Officials Held Millions of Dollars of SpaceX Ahead of IPO" - https://news.bloomberglaw.com/texas-brief/trump-officials-he...

I meant to look for an example of Musk losing a lawsuit and I accidentally came upon another two.

Here and elsewhere you are just running propaganda, knowingly or not.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#113

Post by bee_rider »

bix6 wrote: post #66

Is there any truth to the Chinese models having built in f’ery? Like phoning home or inserting backdoors. Or is that just everyone blanketing “China bad”? Also what local models are people running and actually finding useful?

The models themselves should not be able to phone home, right? They are just piles of weights that generate text (and associated metadata), they don’t have any ability to run code.

They could be trained to generate code that would phone home. But these are just tools, anybody doing the right thing and checking and understanding every line of code that they use an LLM to generate has nothing to worry about.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#114

Post by fragmede »

Jtarii wrote: post #68
rjsw wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fear is that it might insert some "phone home" routine into the source code that it generates.

Has anyone demonstrated that this type of attack is even possible? Also the moment anyone detects this attack it will nuke deepseek/other chinese AI labs reputation completely, it is the most high risk low reward attack ever.

Yes.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.05566

In that paper, if it LLM was told it was 2023, then the code it generated was fine. If the prompt included the fact that it was 2024, then it intentionally wrote exploitable code.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#115

Post by Levitz »

tcp_handshaker wrote: post #62
Levitz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Except you provided no argument. Explain why the AI gang, like a rich kid who run a high debt at the Casino, during their drunken weekend in Vegas...is frenetically calling on daddy US to bail them out: "US officials eye government stakes in AI companies" - https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/us-officials-eye... "Trump to meet AI leaders to discuss US investment in their companies" - https://www.bbc.com/news/…

[flagged]

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#117

Post by falcor84 »

margalabargala wrote: post #93
Avicebron wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a stretch that you can train/align a model to avoid "hatespeech" or other topics deemed $Unacceptable you can align a model to favor a certain ideological viewpoint and have that alignment subtly influence the output. How do most Chinese models handle Tienanmen square or discussions on Han superiority?

Oh sure, no one said you can't train a model to do this. You certainly can. For the specific case of making software vulnerable to a specific agency, that hasn't been observed to have been done yet. Not because it can't be, but because no one has for now. If it were done, it would be easy(ish) to detect, since it'll be reproducible.

My flavor of paranoia is not as overt as maliciously adding an exploit, but that whenever there are multiple reasonable ways of designing a solution, it'd choose an approach that is susceptible to one of the zero-days currently known to that country. I don't see how reproducibility would help you there.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#118

Post by kube-system »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #27
xnx wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "taboo" the right word? "taboo" = "banned on grounds of morality or taste". Not sending data to known IP thieves, state actors, and competitors in China (or Russia or Israel) seems very rational.

Many of the Chinese models are open weights, so if you are concerned about them "phoning home", then anyone can just self-host and run them themself, or use via a US provider such as OpenRouter.

Most American companies are using frontier or near frontier models.

And OpenRouter’s architecture makes it inherently a compliance nightmare.

It’s much easier for the typical company to go with a provider where they can pay as they go and have a single data processing agreement.

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#119

Post by sometimelurker »

falcor84 wrote: post #40
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the Chinese models are open weights, so if you are concerned about them "phoning home", then anyone can just self-host and run them themself, or use via a US provider such as OpenRouter.

There's a higher-order concern here that I'm paranoid enough to voice: that if used as a coding agent, an AI model affiliated with a country's government might try to make my software susceptible to attacks by that government's intelligence forces. And note that I'm not singling out China here.

you can finetune the ccp propaganda out of them, then your mostly fine. if you want to be more safe you can finetune their public base models to not have ccp propagnada, and then proceed with the rest of the training (costs more tho)

Re: The OnlyFans Economy of American AI

#120

Post by zappb »

joe_mamba wrote: post #87
galactushonor wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It didn't quite work out so now people are looking for other strategies. World will bifurcate into West and East with their own spheres of influence. As JD Vance said, US thought that China will be perpetually kept busy and enslaved in low level manufacturing work and the design and higher level work would happen in Cupertino. Too bad, that didn't pan out well and now US Empire is getting challenged by China.

> US thought that China will be perpetually kept busy and enslaved in low level manufacturing work It's OK, they'll repeat the same mistake again with India this time, when they move manufacturing from China to there, and in 10-30 years when they'll elect a nationalist strongman there, he'll squeeze the west for everything they got. Because what are you gonna do about it then? They have all your manufacturing and the…

India is far ahead of that idea and already has legislation to encourage domestic manufacturing from global companies. Plus the nationalist government is in place.
Post reply on HN