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It is an amazing time for programmers

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Re: It is an amazing time for programmers

#111

Post by austin-cheney »

keeda wrote: post #110
austin-cheney wrote: post #58

Quite the gap. The legends the article talks about are legends because they either started a project that blew up in popularity and/or solved a demanded problem with original code. For most people writing software for a living that is gone. Its been gone since I started writing software 20 years ago. The goal post has moved. Its no longer about solving any problem. Its about hiring. The distinction is massive. Most o…

> Now, with AI being pushed on everybody even becoming something like a plumber is becoming a distant gap for the next generation. Yes, but this also has a silver lining: nobody will need to do the rote, toily, plumbingeque, but still economically valuable work that most software engineers spent most of their time on, which means they will be freed up to solve drastically more novel and/or higher level problems. The…

The problem moving forward is a concept known as lost knowledge. The ancient Egyptians had steam powered robots, full industrialization, incredible libraries, and paved roads. Europe had none of that until 200 years ago even though they were in Egypt at the time.

If people cannot refactor the code they own the only option is to start from scratch every single time. Any perceived economic benefits assumed of AI cannot be realized if the common knowledge underlying it dies.

Re: It is an amazing time for programmers

#112

Post by cindyllm »

austin-cheney wrote: post #111
keeda wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, with AI being pushed on everybody even becoming something like a plumber is becoming a distant gap for the next generation. Yes, but this also has a silver lining: nobody will need to do the rote, toily, plumbingeque, but still economically valuable work that most software engineers spent most of their time on, which means they will be freed up to solve drastically more novel and/or higher level problems. The…

The problem moving forward is a concept known as lost knowledge. The ancient Egyptians had steam powered robots, full industrialization, incredible libraries, and paved roads. Europe had none of that until 200 years ago even though they were in Egypt at the time. If people cannot refactor the code they own the only option is to start from scratch every single time. Any perceived economic benefits assumed of AI cannot…

[dead]

Re: It is an amazing time for programmers

#113

Post by chrishill89 »

austin-cheney wrote: post #58

Quite the gap. The legends the article talks about are legends because they either started a project that blew up in popularity and/or solved a demanded problem with original code. For most people writing software for a living that is gone. Its been gone since I started writing software 20 years ago. The goal post has moved. Its no longer about solving any problem. Its about hiring. The distinction is massive. Most o…

It took me many years to even think of problems that I wanted to solve. Or were missing. But eventually it happened. And it seems that the more time passes the more that list of ideas just expands since no one can follow up on all of those ideas.

Someone skilled enough should have many original enough problems to work on. But such persons would have to speak on that topic.

Re: It is an amazing time for programmers

#114

Post by chrishill89 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #83
suncemoje wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of when Jensen Huang recently compared Linux to OpenClaw and showed this ridiculous GitHub star comparison. To me these projects are incomparable.

It's worth remembering that when people like Jensen talk publicly, they most of time are addressing investors in various indirect and direct ways. Comparing Linux with OpenClaw is obviously bullshit and irrelevant, for almost everyone except clueless investors who like that sort of stuff. He's saying those things for the people who neither understand Linux nor OpenClaw, but have lots of money regardless.

Does that show Jensen in a better light?

Re: It is an amazing time for programmers

#115

Post by keeda »

austin-cheney wrote: post #111
keeda wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, with AI being pushed on everybody even becoming something like a plumber is becoming a distant gap for the next generation. Yes, but this also has a silver lining: nobody will need to do the rote, toily, plumbingeque, but still economically valuable work that most software engineers spent most of their time on, which means they will be freed up to solve drastically more novel and/or higher level problems. The…

The problem moving forward is a concept known as lost knowledge. The ancient Egyptians had steam powered robots, full industrialization, incredible libraries, and paved roads. Europe had none of that until 200 years ago even though they were in Egypt at the time. If people cannot refactor the code they own the only option is to start from scratch every single time. Any perceived economic benefits assumed of AI cannot…

Hmm, I doubt that would be an issue for a couple of reasons:

1. We have infinitely more durable means of storing, indexing and retrieving knowledge (and now potentially even means of programmatically reasoning about that knowledge!) We can re-derive things from our records using first principles, as long as we have critical reasoning skills -- about the only skill we will need in the future, and ironically the one most at risk of becoming rarer as people increasingly outsource all thinking to LLMs.

2. We will always need and have engineers of the caliber in TFA. They derive their capabilities, in no small part, by having in-depth knowledge of the entire technology stack they work with. I'd say most of them can operate at the abstract architecture and algorithmic level down to low-level hardware bit-twiddling. If most engineers in the future are of that caliber (which I'd argue is now easier with LLM assistance for those so inclined) there is no chance we'd lose that knowledge.

Re: It is an amazing time for programmers

#116

Post by justgoodfriends »

senda wrote: post #54
chrishill89 wrote: post #5

I wrote an essay and sent it to Chomsky once. He wrote back that he probably won't have time to read it. Some years ago I realized that I can just start sending emails to an OSS mailing list. Without introduction just starting to post as if I belonged there. I had already made some grammar fixes more than five years before that but I started to comment and critique submissions. And submitting my own patches. Now chec…

Chomsky was always amazing for this.

Yet he always found the time to read and respond to his bestie Jeff Epstein.

Re: It is an amazing time for programmers

#117

Post by tim333 »

austin-cheney wrote: post #58

Quite the gap. The legends the article talks about are legends because they either started a project that blew up in popularity and/or solved a demanded problem with original code. For most people writing software for a living that is gone. Its been gone since I started writing software 20 years ago. The goal post has moved. Its no longer about solving any problem. Its about hiring. The distinction is massive. Most o…

>Most of the people doing this work will never encounter an important problem to solve

AGI is an interesting one.

Re: It is an amazing time for programmers

#118

Post by austin-cheney »

keeda wrote: post #115
austin-cheney wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem moving forward is a concept known as lost knowledge. The ancient Egyptians had steam powered robots, full industrialization, incredible libraries, and paved roads. Europe had none of that until 200 years ago even though they were in Egypt at the time. If people cannot refactor the code they own the only option is to start from scratch every single time. Any perceived economic benefits assumed of AI cannot…

Hmm, I doubt that would be an issue for a couple of reasons: 1. We have infinitely more durable means of storing, indexing and retrieving knowledge (and now potentially even means of programmatically reasoning about that knowledge!) We can re-derive things from our records using first principles, as long as we have critical reasoning skills -- about the only skill we will need in the future, and ironically the one mo…

That missed the point in past history and misses the point now. The technology to better preserve human knowledge has been available for thousands of years. It’s an irrelevant compensator for human behavior. If people, in large enough numbers, are not willing to learn, and extend, their craft it will fade into obscurity.

There is no cheat sheet or magic tool for human behavior.

Re: It is an amazing time for programmers

#120

Post by brookst »

lelanthran wrote: post #95
brookst wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same way there’s a distinction between writers and typists, and you really don’t hear anything about typists these days.

> In the same way there’s a distinction between writers and typists, and you really don’t hear anything about typists these days. Not sure that analogy applies. I'd compare it to the difference between an engineer building a bridge and a politician ring-fencing the funds for it.

Again, these tools let you operate in that model as well.

But if you want to design the aesthetic of the bridge, ensure that it is ergonomic for cars, bicycles, pedestrians, make sure it is designed to last and withstand rare weather events, and fully modeled with FIE… you can do that too.

AI is like having a thousand specialists in every field, waiting for you to ask. You can have them research, check each other’s work, build simulations, etc… or you can let them go unused, or you can ask them to tell you how smart you are.

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