111–120 of 219 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're starting with an assumption that AI is, on the whole, a net positive for society. A lot of people would disagree.
Of course and a lot of people disagree that vaccines work, why does this negate any hard evidence?
Well realistically both are bad. Right now our government is purely dysfunctional, so I'm not sure anyone knows how to fight anything. We have a eunuch Congress, and in response each party just tries to push executive power as far as possible, never once considering that someone they dislike could get elected in the future and use that expanded power in a negative way. I'm sure that right at this moment at least some…
We do not have a eunuch congress - but we do have a Congress that believes their balls have been removed despite being there the whole time. This is a solvable problem, happily. It does, however, require some will and for folks to remember they actually have some power as elected representatives to the highest legislative body in the land.
Members of Congress, just like everyone else, act in their own self-interest. And unfortunately for pretty much everyone else, their best method of self-preservation is to do nothing, hence the "eunuch" Congress.
No, it's not a proxy fight about AI. The data centers are just bad, for several, easy-to-explain reasons: 1. They get massive tax breaks; 2. Everyone else pays for the electricity infrastructure that they need to suppor tthem; 3. They pollute water supplies; 4. Everybody's electricity prices go up while the DC has a sweetheart deal that, again, everyone else is paying for; 5. There are no jobs unlike, say, if someone…
In theory, let's say that a data center was proposed that: 1. got no tax breaks 2. self-generated electricity with greenest of green generation 3. did not pollute water supplies 4. made electricity prices go down somehow 5. (can't figure out a theoretical version where there are lots of jobs, sorry) 6. was extremely quiet Would people still be mad about them? I'm trying to figure out if the bad reasons are the _actua…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're starting with an assumption that AI is, on the whole, a net positive for society. A lot of people would disagree.
Of course and a lot of people disagree that vaccines work, why does this negate any hard evidence?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. That is a central problem with power distribution in California. The cities are paying exorbitant prices for electricity to pay for safer infrastructure for rural customers (undergrounding). Some cities have divested from PG&E and enjoy much lower electricity prices as a result.
But it's a circular problem. The price wouldn't be exorbitant if these rural areas were left to their own devices. But their utility build outs must be done per rules passed at the behest of the richer urban areas. We're dealing with this bullshit in my own city in another state. From the parks to the roads to the sidewalks to the library every goddamn thing we touch gets driven up to the point of "can't actually do…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
On this note, I'm actually confused about why datacenters raise electric costs. Why doesn't the data center bear an extra cost for the added infrastructure? If I build a house on undeveloped land and the electric company needs to run lines, do I also (in a much smaller way than a data center) increase the costs for all other customers? Is everything always just spread evenly?
> I'm actually confused about why datacenters raise electric costs electrical supply is not infinite. datacenters have high electrical demand. more demand + same supply = increase prices. > Why doesn't the data center bear an extra cost for the added infrastructure? the problem is that added infrastructure is not built instantaneously. it lags behind. so costs will be high until more supply-side infrastructure is in…
I suppose you can reduce a lot of both good at bad things about the country to "because federalism".
I think its a mistake to fight datacenters and AI. Taking a step back, if the US unilaterally stops producing AI will other countries stop? The answer is clearly no. Datacenters and ai can be built and trained anywhere. If you want control over AI you should want it to be built in your own country where you have political representation. All preventing datacenter buildout will do is ensure that the price remains high…
You're starting with an assumption that AI is, on the whole, a net positive for society. A lot of people would disagree.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course and a lot of people disagree that vaccines work, why does this negate any hard evidence?
Is the hard evidence of AI being a net improvement for society in the room with us now?
If you look around, you'll find the AI has made some significant improvements to medicine and engineering. These improvements get drowned out by the AI Cheerleaders, but they're there.
Isn't "data centers are using all the electricity" the same as "we're not pricing electricity correctly"? Instead of a ban just make sure they pay what's needed to keep capacity where it needs to be.
First, increased demand drives increased prices. This is the least controversial axiom of modern economic theory. So if you add a huge power consumer to a market, all consumers in that market will have to pay more. You can mitigate that some if that new, big consumer builds their own power facility, but the fact still remains that the local price in fuel (oil, coal, etc) or materials for renewable generators (turbins, solar panels, etc) will increase. Again, because demand increased.
Second, its one thing for things to cost more in a market that has a booming economy and plenty of high paying jobs. Home prices in the Bay Area are horrifying, but the poverty line for a family of 4 is $80k, which sort of grounds things. If energy costs go up by $100/year in the Bay Area, nobody notices. But if energy costs suddenly skyrocket in Great Falls, Montana (poverty line for 4: $33k) or similar that lacks a vibrant economy, the residents don't have much choice but to tighten their belts over the suddenly larger electric bill that has done basically nothing to actually revitalize their economy.
I think its a mistake to fight datacenters and AI. Taking a step back, if the US unilaterally stops producing AI will other countries stop? The answer is clearly no. Datacenters and ai can be built and trained anywhere. If you want control over AI you should want it to be built in your own country where you have political representation. All preventing datacenter buildout will do is ensure that the price remains high…
You're starting with an assumption that AI is, on the whole, a net positive for society. A lot of people would disagree.