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SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

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Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#111

Post by cpeterso »

close04 wrote: post #108
rdtsc wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love that part. It really illustrates how incompetent these people are. That’s why the need for robots, they are projecting their incompetence on other people! Also, if this is the best they can do and left such a mess, don’t let them operate robots or any machines! Teach them to use a mop and then maybe upgrade them to a vacuum, and if they pass, let them use a sink garbage disposal under adult supervision.

The were incompetent enough to go to real world testing when these issues would have been obvious from a basic model kitchen test. Obviously their bot is in the very early development stages where it can't do any of the basic things right, they're nowhere near the phase where they needed real world testing. You don't need a real house to tell that your bot keeps damaging furniture, floors, and other items. You iron t…

The company could also test the bots in their employees’ homes for no cost. If employees aren’t comfortable with the bots in their own homes, then they shouldn’t let them loose in others’.

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#112

Post by Rebuff5007 »

RobotToaster wrote: post #103
mrandish wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem here was that they didn't announce to the host that they are doing a test of their in-development equipment. I might be okay forgiving skirting the disclosure rules BUT only if they tried to be model tenants and, if there was any damage, took steps to proactively make things right. If you're breaking the rules, even if there was no damage, you should definitely be cleaning up and putting things back in…

This was my thought. I can understand not wanting to go to the hassle of trying to explain that you're testing an experimental prototype robot to a confused Airbnb owner. What I find inexcusable is not owning up to the damage and paying to fix it when your prototype goes on a rampage of destruction. Moving fast and breaking things is fine, as long as you fix the stuff you break...

> Moving fast and breaking things is fine, as long as you fix the stuff you break...

What? No its not. Breaking things can cause harm that is not always "fixable", particularly if its not your thing to break.

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#113

Post by JsonDemWitOster »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #10
htrp wrote: post #4

>Donovan alleges that employees of the Bot Company(opens in new tab) rented his home “under false pretenses” to conduct prototype testing on robots they’re training to do household chores. >A refrigerator shelf was cracked, and a broken glass or dish had been left in the garbage disposal. A wooden nightstand drawer was chipped. Cups and plates were in the wrong places. It looked like the furniture had been moved arou…

It's exactly this ethos, the "move fast and break things", and oh, we don't give a fuck about who/what we damage in the process - careless people indeed. I am someone who came of age during an incredibly hopeful time about how technology could be a force for good. The silicon valley ethos at present is totally morally bankrupt and rotten to the core.

Move fast and break things is an ethos borne out of the assumption that fixing things is relatively cheap. Hence it made sense in software where experimentation is dirt cheap. But even then, the idea is quite a stretch: ask anyone who worked in a startup who had to sell to even just SMEs, not to mention big conglomerates. The idea hits a hard wall and starts to crack when the business hits a customer who can't fix things for cheap. Even Zuck, father and posterboy of the idea, had to eventually pivot messaging to "Move fast with stable infra".

And the more "software eats the world", the less this paradigm is gonna be a feasible market strategy. I've harbored these thoughts from way back and hence I was (and continue to be) skeptical of unregulated start-ups/new tech ideas who interface with the real world: Hyperloop, Tesla self-driving, and Theranos come to mind. An interesting case study in my view is _Github_ who in theory, having software engineers for customers, should be pretty well-insulated from the expensive repair costs of the real world. And yet we'd all agree they need a GINORMOUS dose of that sweet sweet "stable infra".

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#114

Post by card_zero »

deckar01 wrote: post #91
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can’t secretly watch Airbnb guests through a window Systematically? No. Casually? Of course you can. Why wouldn’t you be allowed to? These aren’t corporate landlords, after all.

> The “Peeping Tom” Laws Penal Code 647(j) explicitly states it is not a defense to this charge that the defendant is a cohabitant, landlord, tenant, cotenant, employer, employee, or business partner or associate of the victim. https://kelmanskylaw.com/crimes/peeping-tom-law-pc-647j-ca/

Here the "reasonable expectation of privacy" is not because they were in the nude, but because they were secretly using your home to test clumsy robots and wouldn't like to be caught.

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#115

Post by 21asdffdsa12 »

close04 wrote: post #108
rdtsc wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love that part. It really illustrates how incompetent these people are. That’s why the need for robots, they are projecting their incompetence on other people! Also, if this is the best they can do and left such a mess, don’t let them operate robots or any machines! Teach them to use a mop and then maybe upgrade them to a vacuum, and if they pass, let them use a sink garbage disposal under adult supervision.

The were incompetent enough to go to real world testing when these issues would have been obvious from a basic model kitchen test. Obviously their bot is in the very early development stages where it can't do any of the basic things right, they're nowhere near the phase where they needed real world testing. You don't need a real house to tell that your bot keeps damaging furniture, floors, and other items. You iron t…

Also obviously the money is running out when you rush to testing

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#116

Post by Scroll_Swe »

nxobject wrote: post #22
htrp wrote: post #4

>Donovan alleges that employees of the Bot Company(opens in new tab) rented his home “under false pretenses” to conduct prototype testing on robots they’re training to do household chores. >A refrigerator shelf was cracked, and a broken glass or dish had been left in the garbage disposal. A wooden nightstand drawer was chipped. Cups and plates were in the wrong places. It looked like the furniture had been moved arou…

> “Sorry :( Did my best!” said a pithy message the group left on a whiteboard on his scuffed-up dining table. Well, no wonder people don't have faith in the people selling AI.

I mean I have done this but I'm probably ADHD & Autistic

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#117

Post by reactordev »

rdtsc wrote: post #94
nxobject wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Sorry :( Did my best!” said a pithy message the group left on a whiteboard on his scuffed-up dining table. Well, no wonder people don't have faith in the people selling AI.

Love that part. It really illustrates how incompetent these people are. That’s why the need for robots, they are projecting their incompetence on other people! Also, if this is the best they can do and left such a mess, don’t let them operate robots or any machines! Teach them to use a mop and then maybe upgrade them to a vacuum, and if they pass, let them use a sink garbage disposal under adult supervision.

That’s been true of EVERY AI company

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#118

Post by [deleted] »

close04 wrote: post #108
rdtsc wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love that part. It really illustrates how incompetent these people are. That’s why the need for robots, they are projecting their incompetence on other people! Also, if this is the best they can do and left such a mess, don’t let them operate robots or any machines! Teach them to use a mop and then maybe upgrade them to a vacuum, and if they pass, let them use a sink garbage disposal under adult supervision.

The were incompetent enough to go to real world testing when these issues would have been obvious from a basic model kitchen test. Obviously their bot is in the very early development stages where it can't do any of the basic things right, they're nowhere near the phase where they needed real world testing. You don't need a real house to tell that your bot keeps damaging furniture, floors, and other items. You iron t…

[deleted]

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#119

Post by conartist6 »

nxobject wrote: post #22
htrp wrote: post #4

>Donovan alleges that employees of the Bot Company(opens in new tab) rented his home “under false pretenses” to conduct prototype testing on robots they’re training to do household chores. >A refrigerator shelf was cracked, and a broken glass or dish had been left in the garbage disposal. A wooden nightstand drawer was chipped. Cups and plates were in the wrong places. It looked like the furniture had been moved arou…

> “Sorry :( Did my best!” said a pithy message the group left on a whiteboard on his scuffed-up dining table. Well, no wonder people don't have faith in the people selling AI.

Tech now believes it should behave amorally

It reaches for people without morals, and instructs them to pursue profit without regard for morality.

I'm very, very, very glad to hear that these people are getting sued.

They should expect to feel a hostile world if they put their every effort into creating a hostile world

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#120

Post by card_zero »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #42
DrewADesign wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody in this startup landscape gives a shit about anybody or anything that isn’t, at that very moment, contributing to their product development, market share, or raising capital. Even then, they only give a shit if they can’t avoid it and still get what they want. The second they are no longer useful, they’re thrown out like a bag of moldy tangerines. Morally bankrupt “leaders” employing people too inexperienced t…

This is the product of "rugged individualism" so prized of Reagan/Thatcher politics. Thatcher meant exactly this when she said "there's no such thing as society". I've got mine, you can all go f*ck yourselves. We need to get back to a place where other people matter, where the implicit social contract is honoured by everyone, and there are consequences for breaking it.

No, that wasn't the meaning. In context, the lead-up to the quote was:

> people have been given to understand "I have a problem, it is the Government's job to cope with it!" or "I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!" "I am homeless, the Government must house me!" and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing!

In subsequent years she often invoked society in phrases like "civil society", "free society", and "responsible society". The quote means that government won't help you very much, and indeed that you should be self-reliant. But it would be a distortion to extrapolate that into "be bad and inconsiderate and uncooperative". Individualism doesn't require the individuals to be unpleasant to one another. It just means they aren't an organized collective or hive.

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