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Social Animus

justine.lol

111–120 of 131 posts

Re: Social Animus

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said I was better than them, but I can acknowledge that some people are. Even then, only in the domain of software, not in terms of human value.

Sorry, to be clear: I'm not calling you out or judging you. It just made me chuckle.

Donkeys are noble animals!

Re: Social Animus

#112
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! I don't know, a cheeky petition and an off-hand tweet don't seem conclusive or comprehensive to me.

Of course, but if it's managed to make it on to Wikipedia, it's probably the tip of the iceberg. Feel free to make the conclusive and comprehensive survey of their online presence, and report back your findings.

I tried pretty hard, but even the Wikipedia refs are just people (wildly) extrapolating from the petition. I'm not saying these aren't her beliefs, I'm just saying we don't have enough to know, definitely not enough to cancel her, which this thread feels like it's about.

Re: Social Animus

#114

Someone else mentioned that her problems are more likely stemming from her involvement in the neoreactionary (alt-right) movement circa 2015. I've never heard of this and generally would say people should be given space to grow from things they said ten years ago... But... > The Dark Enlightenment, also called the Neo-Reactionary movement (abbreviated to NRx), is an anti-democratic, anti-egalitarian,[1] and reactiona…

Justine might have - or perhaps used to have, seeing as this was over a decade ago - political views that are unorthodox and unpopular in mainstream tech circles. I don't agree with these views myself. But shunning him forever for this seems wildly disproportionate.

He is clearly a highly intelligent and highly accomplished individual, and an eloquent communicator. Indeed he is exactly the sort of person who organizations like the Internet Archive should be delighted to have speak on technical matters.

It comes across as very petty and short-sighted of the IA to rescind the invitation based on a handful of complainers complaining about non-technical issues that they are personally offended by.

Whatever happened to being tolerant of the perspectives and opinions of others, even if you strongly disagree?

Re: Social Animus

#115
post #104

Justine, first I'll say I love APE and redbean and your articles on the code trickery you get up to. Of course, I hope you keep creating amazing software for us all to enjoy. I want to zoom in on this: "I am the intersection of so many unliked groups whose minds I've come to understand. If you were to use bayesian inference to compute the probability that I'm a good person, it would underflow a double. In practice, t…

>telling Justine to be normal I think it's that same impulse that keeps getting her in trouble. It's not really an option, is it. You gotta work with reality rather than against it. It's okay to be who you are. And you'll have to accept that everyone's going to have their own reaction to that. Trying to appeal to people who hate you... well, just look around. Man, become who you are!

The root cause problem seems to be that people who are highly intolerant to others' views and perspectives that they happen to disagree with have become an outsized voice in tech circles. Shunning, blacklisting and publicly denouncing has become a toxic norm.

Justine has expressed unorthodox views in the past but that's no reason to punish him forever, or indeed at all. To be as inclusive and tolerant as possible - towards an end goal of maximizing participation and enabling outstanding technical work to flourish - it is better to simply agree to disagree.

Re: Social Animus

#116
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn’t get that they’re struggling to find work from the article. Did I miss something? They're just struggling to buy "a home in San Francisco" and "travel around the world and experience the cosmopolitan lifestyle my project is named after, using only private aviation." Also this person apparently went from being part of Occupy Wall Street to being "inspired by the political views of Curtis Yarvin" ( https://en…

> Also this person apparently went from being part of Occupy Wall Street to being "inspired by the political views of Curtis Yarvin" A lot of the far right are anti-globalisation as Occupy Wall Street was, both are a rejection of consensus politics, and people who tend to go to extremes are more likely to go to a different extreme than become moderate. There is also a type of brilliant person (and Justine is brillian…

I suspect that on some level, many of the people slating Justine feel threatened by his genius, and that is part of the reason why they keep bringing up the same tired old laundry list of perceived sins in an attempt to do so.

Re: Social Animus

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said I was better than them, but I can acknowledge that some people are. Even then, only in the domain of software, not in terms of human value.

Sorry, to be clear: I'm not calling you out or judging you. It just made me chuckle.

No worries, I can see how it would lol

Re: Social Animus

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but if it's managed to make it on to Wikipedia, it's probably the tip of the iceberg. Feel free to make the conclusive and comprehensive survey of their online presence, and report back your findings.

I tried pretty hard, but even the Wikipedia refs are just people (wildly) extrapolating from the petition. I'm not saying these aren't her beliefs, I'm just saying we don't have enough to know, definitely not enough to cancel her, which this thread feels like it's about.

[deleted]

Re: Social Animus

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but if it's managed to make it on to Wikipedia, it's probably the tip of the iceberg. Feel free to make the conclusive and comprehensive survey of their online presence, and report back your findings.

I tried pretty hard, but even the Wikipedia refs are just people (wildly) extrapolating from the petition. I'm not saying these aren't her beliefs, I'm just saying we don't have enough to know, definitely not enough to cancel her, which this thread feels like it's about.

I think to get what you asked you're going to have to directly read their social media and other writings for the last N years and form an impression, keeping in mind self-censorship doesn't mean a change in core beliefs. Following wikipedia refs isn't going to cut it. We're not talking about a public figure here, but an extremely online regular person/minor internet celebrity.

Re: Social Animus

#120

I wasn’t patient enough to read the whole thing. But I know Justine to be of extraordinary technical prowess. I can imagine that someone with that level of talent can be extremely socially unfit - whether intentionally or unintentionally I am unaware. At some point I may have been that way (hoping I am no longer that way, hopefully I was that way with the talent as opposed to without), and I’ve met others who are. Wh…

Or it really just speaks to the fact no one can stand working with her for a prolonged period of time.

Exactly. It doesn't matter how smart or talented you are if you have no soft skills. You can't treat employees as black boxes where business needs go in and business value comes out. Soft skills are the vehicle through which someone interfaces with the company, which is ultimately "just a bunch of people".

You can isolate folks without soft skills to some extent to avoid them butting heads with other people, but at some point they still need to be able to take direction and work with some people.

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