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Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

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Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#111

Post by Bender »

I am usually apposed to any tax on anyone or any entity for any reason but I am also jaded after a lifetime of seeing taxes almost entirely go to fraud waste and abuse that only grows with time and very rarely ever shrinks. me and my weird fantasies about implementing the code of bushidō in all governments world wide.

This will be an unpopular opinion as I have many but if these taxes are allocated 100% to offsetting taxes and costs for the farmers then I would support it but I am not in Italy so thankfully it does not matter what I or most people think. Farmers have thin margins and have to compensate for weather that they do not control. They are also very under appreciated which is bizarre to me given they provide our food.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#112

Post by margalabargala »

energy123 wrote: post #62
bigmadshoe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Europe can opt out if they want, hyperscalers are building in South Asia, SEA and MENA where they get tax breaks. We'll see how that plays out for Europe.

Exactly. There are plenty of data centers being built in places that want them. The neat thing about data is that it's a quick speed of light to anywhere on the planet, so it doesn't matter where they are.

Anyone who wants to opt out can do so and it'll play out just fine for them.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#113

Post by dukeyukey »

_vertigo wrote: post #57
perks_12 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do. But currently we are choosing the Luddite way of doing things. Simply ignoring this fantastic technology is not a choice but economic suicide.

Interesting — so in your opinion every country must build out datacenters or be left behind?

To a point, yes. Otherwise you are at the mercy of whoever's compute you use.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#115

Post by monegator »

perks_12 wrote: post #19

Datacenters need cheap energy, something no region in Europe is having in abundance (except maybe Norway, Sweden, and Finland). I don't think Lombardy was seeing too much DC construction. It's just typical green politics. Forever backwards. Sure, people feel somewhat AI-fatigued, but blocking the future won't play out nicely for Italy or Europe in general.

>It's just typical green politics. Forever backwards

No. In northern italy alone we have tens of thousands unused warehouse spaces.

Let's use that space for datacenters and solar farms instead of destroying forever yet another plot of fertile land.

If data centers will also bring nuclear to power them, i'm all for it. But let's be honest: realistically they will be powered by coal, maybe gas.

As to why we have so much unused warehouses: some legally have no owner, some have declared bankrupcy and will be leased at absurd prices (it will cost half to build a new one), some were costructed illegaly and all stay there in the limbo because the local administrations would have to pay to reclaim the land

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#116

Post by perks_12 »

vrganj wrote: post #61
perks_12 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do. But currently we are choosing the Luddite way of doing things. Simply ignoring this fantastic technology is not a choice but economic suicide.

[flagged]

Try Claude Code for a weekend. Maybe that clears up the confusion about how amazing AI can be.

You can also take a look at North Korea as an example of a nation that decided the industrial revolution was one to sit out.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#117

Post by plastic-enjoyer »

bigmadshoe wrote: post #35
perks_12 wrote: post #19

Datacenters need cheap energy, something no region in Europe is having in abundance (except maybe Norway, Sweden, and Finland). I don't think Lombardy was seeing too much DC construction. It's just typical green politics. Forever backwards. Sure, people feel somewhat AI-fatigued, but blocking the future won't play out nicely for Italy or Europe in general.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#118

Post by john_strinlai »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #79
john_strinlai wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at some point the additional tax revenue outweighs the downsides

I disagree as you can't eat or drink tax revenue.

you can eat food and drink water, though. use the tax revenue to directly support food and water via investing it in agriculture, food imports, water sanitation, etc.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#119

Post by sagarm »

Bender wrote: post #111

I am usually apposed to any tax on anyone or any entity for any reason but I am also jaded after a lifetime of seeing taxes almost entirely go to fraud waste and abuse that only grows with time and very rarely ever shrinks. me and my weird fantasies about implementing the code of bushidō in all governments world wide. This will be an unpopular opinion as I have many but if these taxes are allocated 100% to offsetting…

Isn't there already enough graft directed towards farmers?

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#120

Post by sbayg »

GuestFAUniverse wrote: post #83
vessenes wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't they pay much in taxes? hyperscalers are pretty profitable.

Where? What do you tax? Per request? They will shuffle most gains around to the place with the lowest taxes. E.g. by internally buying and selling (overpriced) services. The only realistic tax is coming from the jobs that serve those data centres (builders, maintenance, that little IT staff left for on-site jobs). And those are rather low margin jobs.

Don’t forget security guards. These data centers will be a huge target for both thieves and saboteurs. Unless the ai promoters are right that AI will be a great thing for everyone and not at all a source of societal and political strain.
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