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AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

joshwcomeau.com

111–120 of 344 posts

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#111
post #7

I mostly share Josh's opinion, but I think a lot of these posts that talk about Senior vs. Junior experience when working with AIs is kind of rubbish. Sure, you get better results as a Senior working with AI tooling and struggle more as a Junior. Nothing has changed in that equation except the amplification. What folks seem to avoid is that a Junior (in ANY subject) has the ability to LEARN so much faster with an AI…

Smart, motivated juniors have incredible tools to amplify their learning and capabilities.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#112

I had an Iron Man moment last week where I was “vibe coding” a UI design with component tests live on the other screen. Iterating by asking it to move things, reduce emphasis of an element, exploring layout options, etc. The loop was near realtime and felt amazing. The code it generated was awful. The kind of garbage that people who don’t know any better would ship: it looked right and it worked. But it was instantly…

Did you try to have it clean up the code and refactor? I find while the code is usually low to mid tier that it’s a lot better than the first pass. I of course back up the working version lol. Usually I can coax something better out of it

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#113
post #87

I had an Iron Man moment last week where I was “vibe coding” a UI design with component tests live on the other screen. Iterating by asking it to move things, reduce emphasis of an element, exploring layout options, etc. The loop was near realtime and felt amazing. The code it generated was awful. The kind of garbage that people who don’t know any better would ship: it looked right and it worked. But it was instantly…

Why was it a maintenance dead end? It sounds like you were able to iteratively work on it in its current state, but are you going to be the one maintaining the code? I keep asking myself the same questions, and the conclusion I keep coming to is the clean modeled structure we want to see is for humans to maintain and extend, but the AI doesn't need this. There's definitely an efficiency angle here where it's faster f…

The reason why you will never get software engineers (in companies) to accept the man behind the curtain is liability. If a human software engineer is still responsible for what happens when the AI developed code has a catastrophic bug or security vulnerability, then the only way for the human to know if there is a problem is to be able to read through the code or run it through some that guarantees zero issues.

I think we eventually end up at the tool approach via vendors providing the tools to other companies, but it still feels like there's a long road ahead to get there.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy, have Claude review the code, tell it to be critical and that it needs to be easier to understand, follow Clean Code, SOLID principles and best practices. Lie to it, say you got this from a Junior developer, or "review it as if you were a Staff Level Engineer reviewing Junior code" the models can write better code, just nobody tells them to.

Lol, the only thing worse than a junior developer following Clean Code and SOLID has to be an LLM messing with code so it looks like it follows.

Clean Code has its really "meh" areas, but the core idea and spirit of it is sound, heck Python's best guide is PEP-8 if you follow that, it forces you to write much better Python code.

In terms of "junior dev following" it would be the model trying to think and write it as a Senior or Staff Level engineer would.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#115
post #87

I had an Iron Man moment last week where I was “vibe coding” a UI design with component tests live on the other screen. Iterating by asking it to move things, reduce emphasis of an element, exploring layout options, etc. The loop was near realtime and felt amazing. The code it generated was awful. The kind of garbage that people who don’t know any better would ship: it looked right and it worked. But it was instantly…

Why was it a maintenance dead end? It sounds like you were able to iteratively work on it in its current state, but are you going to be the one maintaining the code? I keep asking myself the same questions, and the conclusion I keep coming to is the clean modeled structure we want to see is for humans to maintain and extend, but the AI doesn't need this. There's definitely an efficiency angle here where it's faster f…

I keep hearing the assertion that you can’t make high quality, maintainable code with LLMs. The last two years using AI have shown me exactly the opposite.

I think it’s all about the structure you use to work in and how you use the model. We are shipping better, more human friendly code, with less bugs, then we ever did before and doing it at 1/10 the cost before LLMs.

But we are definitely not vibe coding, and the key seems to be devs with years of experience managing teams, managing the LLM instead. Basically you create the same kind of formal specifications, conventions, and documentation that you would develop for a project with two or three teams, then use that to keep the project on the rails recursively looping back through the docs as you go along. I’ve only had to back out of a couple of issues over the last year, and even though that cost a couple of hours, it was still extremely cheap.

Meanwhile we are shipping at 4x speed with 1/4 the labor, and the code is better than it was because the “overhead” of writing maintainable, self documented code has inverted into the secret ingredient to shipping bug free code at unprecedented speed.

If you just explain the standards to which you want the code written, use a strict style guide, have a separate process that ensures test coverage (not in the same context) you can get example quality code all the way through. Turns out that’s also in the training data.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#116

I had an Iron Man moment last week where I was “vibe coding” a UI design with component tests live on the other screen. Iterating by asking it to move things, reduce emphasis of an element, exploring layout options, etc. The loop was near realtime and felt amazing. The code it generated was awful. The kind of garbage that people who don’t know any better would ship: it looked right and it worked. But it was instantly…

> I had an Iron Man moment Iron Man created Jarvis whose capabilities are way beyond any models in the near future. So it wasn’t an Iron Man moment.

He was presumably also not constructing a powered exoskeleton of from fictional materials or a physically implausible power source, but since you obviously caught the reference, how about some benevolent interpretation instead, for a decent shorthand about working smoothly with AI assistance.

(And on a personal note, I'm glad we don't have a publicly released Jarvis before we get our act together about the use.)

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy, have Claude review the code, tell it to be critical and that it needs to be easier to understand, follow Clean Code, SOLID principles and best practices. Lie to it, say you got this from a Junior developer, or "review it as if you were a Staff Level Engineer reviewing Junior code" the models can write better code, just nobody tells them to.

Code review is the main thing I use LLMs for. I have found it to be remarkably candid when you tell it the code came from another LLM (even name it). I was running Kimi K2.6 Q4 locally, seeing if it could SIMD a bit-matrix transpose function, and it was slow enough that I would paste its thinking into Gemini every few minutes. Gemini was savage .

> Gemini was savage.

Humorously, this could be the result of LLMs vacuuming up all the sentiment on the web that the code that LLMs produce is trash-tier.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#118
What is unclear to me is how less skilled people gain useful experience, when using these amplifying tools. I’ve been at this for 35 years; I like to think that sometimes i get some pretty amazing results.

I work with two pretty green developers. The rate that they can make a mess is now phenomenal. And the sense of confidence the tools give them with early successes, means any experience I might have to offer means less now. Which is ok, I’m not going to be that “my experience has to be useful to you so I still fell relevant” old guy. But I do find myself curious how “lessons are learned” that lead to greater and greater tool exploitation in this brave new world.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#119

I had an Iron Man moment last week where I was “vibe coding” a UI design with component tests live on the other screen. Iterating by asking it to move things, reduce emphasis of an element, exploring layout options, etc. The loop was near realtime and felt amazing. The code it generated was awful. The kind of garbage that people who don’t know any better would ship: it looked right and it worked. But it was instantly…

We collectively have to re-learn what operations are expensive and what are cheap.

Prototypes are practically free now. You can ask the AI try each architectural or stylistic option and just see which code you like better.

To your point, another interesting note is that rewriting and rearchitecting are also very good.

One pattern I like is to vibe code a set of solutions, pick the approach, then backfill tests and do major refactors to make it maintainable.

Here the skill is knowing what good architecture looks like, and knowing how to prompt and validate (eg what level of tests will speed up the feedback cycle or enable me to make the LLM’s changes legible).

To be fair the “ready, fire, aim” approach of rapid prototyping has been known for a long time, but you need to be quite quick at coding in old world for it to work well IMO.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#120
post #34

I see two points: 1. AIs aren't yet good at architecture. 2. AIs aren't yet good at imagining technically exciting stuff to build. And I agree that there's still space there to build a career in the short to medium term (plus Jevons Paradox). When both those points are no longer true we are certainly much closer to, dear I say it, agi. I suspect that (1) will be solved for somewhat limited domains in the near future…

Nearly every argument that hinges on the word "yet" is just an example of over-extrapolation[0] at play. 0: https://www.fallacyfiles.org/overxtra.html

Moreover we haven’t seen all the effects of today’s tech to understand the net benefits.

E.g ‘productivity’ is seemingly increasing but what is the effect on a firms financial position? It’s all speculative and experimental right now.

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