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Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

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Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#111

Post by jonlucc »

Arodex wrote: post #82
paxys wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statute of limitations is not a "bureaucratic technicality", it is the law.

Then why did the American justice system needed nine jurors when a clerk could have sufficed? The American judicial system is completely Byzantine and rotten, from top to bottom. Worse than many third world countries.

There are questions of fact involved, and the judge empaneled the jury to resolve the factual dispute. In this case, when did the clock on SoL start ticking? Was it tolled for any amount of time to extend the date? Those are more than just counting 3 years on a calendar.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#112

Post by frankchn »

colechristensen wrote: post #48
2b3a51 wrote: post #9

Reached for comment by TechCrunch, Musk’s lead counsel Marc Toberoff said, “One word: Appeal.” One wonders on what grounds? In the UK, in a civil case like this, the judge I think comments on the likelihood of an appeal avenue once the verdict has been reached.

He lost on the grounds of a statue of limitations defense which is exactly the kind of thing which is easily appealable.

In this case, I think it is a jury's finding of fact re: the statute of limitations. Unless the appellate court finds that the trial court and jury is clearly erroneous, it will usually give significant deference to that finding.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#113

Post by tombert »

mustaphah wrote: post #31
dzonga wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Muskys problem is does things in the moment as a way to increase popularity without thinking that end up bitting him. e.g the twitter thing - forced to buy when he didn't want.

Extreme smartness has its own failure modes

I'm not convinced he's all that smart. Space datacenters seems like an unbelievably stupid idea to me, and I cannot imagine anyone who is ostensibly surrounded by tech seriously considering it. Well, no one sober anyway.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#114

Post by hnfong »

chipsrafferty wrote: post #104
Arodex wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Musk could have brought the same lawsuit in 2019 or 2021, meaning his claims were untimely for the 3 year statute of limitations. Why is a hypothetical ground for this decision? "You didn't complain immediately the first time you got robbed, therefore all the robbing since then is covered by a statute of limitation".

There are multiple reasons why statutes of limitations exist, one of them being that the further away in time, the harder it is to prove evidence. Witnesses may have died, or their memory may be more faulty.

Also criminal liability is generally handled differently. Some jurisdictions have no limit, and where the limits exist for criminal liability, limitations on serious crimes can be much longer than the civil ones.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#115

Post by Arodex »

granzymes wrote: post #106
Arodex wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Musk could have brought the same lawsuit in 2019 or 2021, meaning his claims were untimely for the 3 year statute of limitations. Why is a hypothetical ground for this decision? "You didn't complain immediately the first time you got robbed, therefore all the robbing since then is covered by a statute of limitation".

The statute of limitations exists to prevent unreasonable delay, to protect defendants from prejudice due to loss of evidence to the passage of time, and to recognize that people who are injured tend to complain immediately and not sit on their claims. This case demonstrates why. Musk only complained after OpenAI was commercially successful with ChatGPT and after he started a competing effort. He repeatedly said “I d…

I know why statutes of limitation exist. I was wondering why it applied here. Apparently it wasn't completely straightforward, as nine jurors were needed to reach a decision on that point, instead of a single judge or even clerk.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#116

Post by nebula8804 »

ngruhn wrote: post #54
exe34 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, twitter ended up useful for him when he used it to buy his way into the US government and close down all the departments that were investigating his companies for breaking all sorts of laws.

On the other hand, buying twitter was the turning point for his public image. Before that, he was Tony Stark. Now he's Lex Luthor.

Key word being public. People from the industries he operates in were screaming from the rooftops about him for years. Tech people chose to actively ignore their colleagues in automotive and space. I remember the circumstances that led to the creation of /r/realtesla.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#118

Post by cubefox »

pocksuppet wrote: post #100
cubefox wrote: post #90

So you are allowed to violate the law if you aren't sued quickly enough.

Yes. This has always been, and will always be, the case. It's the same in things like copyright law - you can violate any software license if the copyright holder doesn't know you're doing it, or doesn't want to sue you, or doesn't sue you in time. It's the same with taxi medallions or hotel regulations if you're trying to start Uber or AirBNB.

What Altman and Brockman did still seems highly unethical.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#119

Post by the_doctah »

ngruhn wrote: post #54
exe34 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, twitter ended up useful for him when he used it to buy his way into the US government and close down all the departments that were investigating his companies for breaking all sorts of laws.

On the other hand, buying twitter was the turning point for his public image. Before that, he was Tony Stark. Now he's Lex Luthor.

[flagged]

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#120

Post by kstrauser »

Arodex wrote: post #93
granzymes wrote: post #81

Because no one has commented yet on the legal significance: Musk lost today because the jury found that he waited too long to bring his claims. The jury answers only yes/no questions, so we do not know their exact thoughts, but it is likely they determined that the 2019 and 2021 Microsoft deals were too similar to the 2023 Microsoft deal that was the centerpiece of Musk’s lawsuit. Musk could have brought the same law…

>Musk could have brought the same lawsuit in 2019 or 2021, meaning his claims were untimely for the 3 year statute of limitations. Why is a hypothetical ground for this decision? "You didn't complain immediately the first time you got robbed, therefore all the robbing since then is covered by a statute of limitation".

Because there has to be some point. It's unjust to allow someone to sue 30 years later, as everyone would have a sword of Damocles hanging over their head waiting for the right moment to strike. And in general, if you didn't realize you were robbed for 3 years, perhaps it's the case that you weren't actually robbed.
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