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Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

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Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#111

Post by JumpCrisscross »

montroser wrote: post #82
Tyrubias wrote: post #13

In a sane world, the US as a supposed bastion of free speech and personal liberties would enact legislation that requires companies to provide a specific, articulable reason for suspending accounts due to rules violations and offer everyone the chance to appeal. That would serve as a counterbalance to more authoritarian regimes insisting companies like Meta censor people, even if the US can’t guarantee it for people…

You don't have a constitutional right to post on Facebook. When you invest your life into platforms run by for profit corporations, you agree to play by their rules. Merging state and big tech is not going to help.

> You don't have a constitutional right to post on Facebook

Which is why OP describes the U.S. enacting legislation creating a statutory right.

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#112

Post by 8note »

mystraline wrote: post #79
Jiro wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is true here, except "do anything you want" is "be displeasing to Kuwait". It's all "they're a private company, they can ban anyone they want" right up until they ban someone who promoters of that idea don't like. Then they're suddenly horrible people for being a private company that bans anyone they want.

> It's all "they're a private company, they can ban anyone they want" right up until they ban someone who promoters of that idea don't like. Then they're suddenly horrible people for being a private company that bans anyone they want. If they are NOT acting as an impartial aggregator and only censoring/deleting when the law demands, then they should NOT be covered under Section 230. Thats quite simple.

i dont see why the government needs to be so prescriptive about how companies run?

the current law allows for impartial and biased/focused platforms to exist, so customers can access a variety of platforms and discussion fora.

in your proposal, something like banjo hangout couldnt exist as a platform focused on banjo picking, frailing, and building, because posts debating sailing vs rowing arent allowed

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#113

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ebbi wrote: post #87
spwa4 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes quite a bit further: the Muslim Brotherhood are fascists (as in actual fascists) and (religous) racists, of the supremacist kind. They are in control of the most famous university in islamic countries: Al-Azhar. Long ago they were a supporter of Adolf Hitler, and today are known for being the parent organization of Hamas and they are supporting the genocide in Sudan (meaning they are sponsoring Arabs committi…

Are Zionists fascists, and (religious) racists? Just a yes or no will be fine.

> Are Zionists fascists, and (religious) racists?

Muslim Brotherhood is a coherent organisation, so we can meaningfully talk about its beliefs. Asking whether "Zionists" are fascist is as incohrent as asking if Antifa "believes" in anything. These aren't coherent organisations, just loose collections of aligned folks.

Fundamentally, nothing about Zionism strikes me as requiring fascism or religious supremacy (though it does require religious segregation).

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#114

Post by JumpCrisscross »

benoau wrote: post #44
csallen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but if you control access to a market of millions of people, a lot of companies will do what you say (i.e. follow your laws) in order to retain access to that market, as well as protect their local employees from jail. I would say that counts as meaningful power.

In theory, but the last two years have also seen Zuckerburg, Musk and Cook openly defying the EU, one of the largest markets on the planet.

> the last two years have also seen Zuckerburg, Musk and Cook openly defying the EU, one of the largest markets on the planet

I think it's fair to say the chances of Kuwait acting decisively against Zuckerberg, Musk or Cook is far higher than the EU.

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#115

Post by JumpCrisscross »

KaiserPro wrote: post #21
Tyrubias wrote: post #13

In a sane world, the US as a supposed bastion of free speech and personal liberties would enact legislation that requires companies to provide a specific, articulable reason for suspending accounts due to rules violations and offer everyone the chance to appeal. That would serve as a counterbalance to more authoritarian regimes insisting companies like Meta censor people, even if the US can’t guarantee it for people…

> requires companies to provide a specific, articulable reason for suspending accounts wouldn't that violate free speech though? forcing a company to keep something up/take something down is entirely up to them no?

> wouldn't that violate free speech though?

It's balancing the company's freedom of association against the individual's freedom of speech.

Look, the world criticised Facebook for facilitating a genocide in Burma [1]. There is a moral argument for American social media companies policing their speech to some degree. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't also be a process of appeal, data offloading, et cetera.

[1] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/myanmar-faceb...

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#116

Post by dotancohen »

edent wrote: post #36
gatlin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Americans often try to use dollars in Europe?

Yes. Everyone has a story about being stuck behind an irate American who can't understand why their currency isn't accepted abroad. I've seen it in the UK - when a tourist tried to leave a tip in dollars for a bemused waiter.

In Romania, at least a few decades ago, tips from foreigners were expected to be in dollars. Tipping in Lei would be weird.

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#117

Post by ebbi »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #113
ebbi wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Zionists fascists, and (religious) racists? Just a yes or no will be fine.

> Are Zionists fascists, and (religious) racists? Muslim Brotherhood is a coherent organisation, so we can meaningfully talk about its beliefs. Asking whether "Zionists" are fascist is as incohrent as asking if Antifa "believes" in anything. These aren't coherent organisations, just loose collections of aligned folks. Fundamentally, nothing about Zionism strikes me as requiring fascism or religious supremacy (though…

> These aren't coherent organisations, just loose collections of aligned folks.

Yeah, there aren't any coherent organisations that claim to be Zionist. There's no state in the Middle East born from this ideology. There aren't political organisations that bribe US politicians to influence US government. There aren't organisations that hose real estate meetings in Synagogues to sell illegal lands for people to make Aliyah.

Definitely just a loose collection of aligned folks. Yep.

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#118

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ebbi wrote: post #117
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are Zionists fascists, and (religious) racists? Muslim Brotherhood is a coherent organisation, so we can meaningfully talk about its beliefs. Asking whether "Zionists" are fascist is as incohrent as asking if Antifa "believes" in anything. These aren't coherent organisations, just loose collections of aligned folks. Fundamentally, nothing about Zionism strikes me as requiring fascism or religious supremacy (though…

> These aren't coherent organisations, just loose collections of aligned folks. Yeah, there aren't any coherent organisations that claim to be Zionist. There's no state in the Middle East born from this ideology. There aren't political organisations that bribe US politicians to influence US government. There aren't organisations that hose real estate meetings in Synagogues to sell illegal lands for people to make Ali…

> there aren't any coherent organisations that claim to be Zionist

That you have to put up straw men sort of proves my point.

Yes, there are coherent Zionist organisations (including political parties and lobbying groups). Some (perhaps many, hell, maybe even most) of these are fascist and ethno-religious supremacist. We can make meaningful statements about them because, as you said, they're "coherent organisations that claim to be Zionist".

Trying to expand that to "Zionists" in general isn't meaningful unless you're constructing a totem to pillory.

Re: Meta deletes popular 1M follower account after Kuwaiti request

#119

Post by ebbi »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #118
ebbi wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These aren't coherent organisations, just loose collections of aligned folks. Yeah, there aren't any coherent organisations that claim to be Zionist. There's no state in the Middle East born from this ideology. There aren't political organisations that bribe US politicians to influence US government. There aren't organisations that hose real estate meetings in Synagogues to sell illegal lands for people to make Ali…

> there aren't any coherent organisations that claim to be Zionist That you have to put up straw men sort of proves my point. Yes, there are coherent Zionist organisations (including political parties and lobbying groups). Some (perhaps many, hell, maybe even most) of these are fascist and ethno-religious supremacist. We can make meaningful statements about them because, as you said, they're "coherent organisations t…

Where's the straw man?

I wonder what the underlying ideology of Zionism is that makes these Zionist organisations all act in the same way, for the same cause.

It seems you don't know what Zionism is, or just purposely deflecting because you do know what it is, but carrying out Hasbara here.

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