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Ten Signs of Fascism. America has all of them

rutgerbregman.substack.com

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Re: Ten Signs of Fascism. America has all of them

#111

Post by maratc »

Schmerika wrote: post #81
maratc wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the tech billionaires might have a vested interest in making sure stories like this get flagged Interestingly, this "anyone with an opinion different from mine must be a paid shill" argument doesn't pop quite as often in the discussions about Clovis Culture tools, Roman Empire letters, or pre-Linotype typesetting -- the fact that makes me think that maybe keeping politics out of HN is actually a good thing.

> "anyone with an opinion different from mine must be a paid shill" Not remotely what I said. One of the better HN guidelines here is to try and interpret comments you read in the best possible light. I recommend it. What I actually said is simply correct - there are tech billionaires who do have strong reasons to flag certain topics on HN. And there's no way to stop them from doing so. We rely solely on 100% opaque…

Your favourites have tons of "If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic" stuff. The fact that so much of it is flagged is a feature of this place, not a bug. This feature is why I keep coming here almost daily for the last 15 years or so.

Re: Ten Signs of Fascism. America has all of them

#112

Post by mdrzn »

"This isn’t ordinary lobbying or corruption. It’s structural fusion: the same bargain the industrialists made in 1933."

"These paramilitary squads didn’t just protect the movement, they were the movement."

It's not just X, it's definitely Y.

Re: Ten Signs of Fascism. America has all of them

#114

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

klamann wrote: post #60
derbOac wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a peer-reviewed study of this that appeared in the last couple of years that showed the percent support for authoritarian rule tends to hover around 20% worldwide regardless of country, plus or minus some fuzz amount. I can't find it now because I keep finding other papers but this is another report that's is pretty consistent with it: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/28/who-likes... Once you g…

don't forget about the historical examples of having your home destroyed by war (usually a war started by your leader) and the regime being forcefully replaced by a foreign power. Japan, Italy and Germany are democracies today.

> Japan, Italy and Germany are democracies today

For now. But democracies are always only one election away from a party taking power and passing laws that entrench them indefinitely.

Re: Ten Signs of Fascism. America has all of them

#115

Post by pjmlp »

klamann wrote: post #23

As a German, I started wondering if every nation has to experience a fascist catastrophe on its own, before a majority agrees that a fascist takeover is possible at home (surely the peoples who failed to stop all the other fascist regimes were just dumb). Then again, 30% of German voters would vote for the fascist AfD party today, so there's that... I agree with the premise of the article wholeheartedly. Minor nitpic…

Doesn't help sadly, as you reckon.

Back home in Portugal, it is a similar trend, I belong to the first generation to grow in freedom after the revolution, and it is quite sad to see how right wing is taking over, as if people had forgotten all about PIDE/DGS, the kidnaping and killings, crossing to France over the mountains and Spain, Tarrafal prison, the colonial wars.

Re: Ten Signs of Fascism. America has all of them

#116

Post by vga1 »

Funny how well these fit into the terminally online far leftist framing too.

1. Mythic past and rebirth: dreaming of the lost socialist utopia of USSR etc. which was taken from us all by force and deception.

2. Victimhood and humiliation: working class is the victim of a rigged system, exploited by capital elite.

3. Hierarchy and dehumanization: world is split into oppressors (landlords, rich people, etc) and oppressed (workers).

4. Contempt for weakness: "liberals" let this happen due to their limp-wristedness.

5. Cult of action: revolts, strikes, protests, even violence against oppressors.

6. The leader as savior: Mamdani, Sanders, AOC? This admittedly doesn't quite work in the same way as in fascism.

7. Purification of institutions: Universities, media, and governments must be purged of "reactionaries" or "liberals" who resist the revolution.

8. Propaganda and assault on truth: dissent is violently suppressed. Various kinds of Big Lies (e.g. "the genocide") are spread as absolute truths and are repeated at every possible point.

9. Merger of state and corporate power: seizing both the corporations and state for the proletariat.

10. Violence and terror: glorifying murderers when they murder those "who deserve it".

Re: Ten Signs of Fascism. America has all of them

#117

Post by mindslight »

tomhow wrote: post #99
jupiterelastica wrote: post #22

With the risk of sounding naive: How come this post is flagged? Reading the guidelines I can't see how this is off-topic or does _not_ "[gratify] one's intellectual curiosity." Edit: spelling

We’ve turned off the flags. The story was flagged by many users. The problem with articles like this is the discussions are repetitive and predictable. We rarely see anyone approaching them with genuine curiosity. The topic of whether this president and administration are befitting of particular labels and historical analogies has been continually discussed (in broader society and on HN) since about 2015. And in the…

The "discussions" are repetitive because the sparks of curious and constructive discussion are shouted down or used up by people who just want to rail against the framing. If you want to support intellectually curious discussion, then letting whole topics get shut down because they are partisan-inflammatory is the wrong thing to do - this merely supports the dynamic of the hecklers' veto. Rather you need to police the partisan disruptors better.

There is a reason there is no downvoting on submissions, right? And yet we've now gotten to a place where submission flags have become an effective downvote. I don't know if this particular post would have generated thoughtful discussion, but I do know that only seeing this submission by chance a day later all of the interest has passed it by.

Re: Ten Signs of Fascism. America has all of them

#118

Post by mindslight »

vga1 wrote: post #116

Funny how well these fit into the terminally online far leftist framing too. 1. Mythic past and rebirth: dreaming of the lost socialist utopia of USSR etc. which was taken from us all by force and deception. 2. Victimhood and humiliation: working class is the victim of a rigged system, exploited by capital elite. 3. Hierarchy and dehumanization: world is split into oppressors (landlords, rich people, etc) and oppress…

I've long described the bureaucratic authoritarian corporatist state as building fascism from the other direction, ala inverted totalitarianism. But your list is a conflation of a lot of things - some valid critiques, straightforward responses to the open fascism of the Republican party, and some flat out straw men (eg there are no significant numbers of people "dreaming of the lost socialist utopia of USSR"). And right from the start you've set up a motte and bailey with "terminally online far leftist". So this list reads more as partisan flamebait/rationalization of the current open fascist dynamics rather than a serious critique aimed at any kind of reform.

Re: Ten Signs of Fascism. America has all of them

#119

Post by vga1 »

mindslight wrote: post #118
vga1 wrote: post #116

Funny how well these fit into the terminally online far leftist framing too. 1. Mythic past and rebirth: dreaming of the lost socialist utopia of USSR etc. which was taken from us all by force and deception. 2. Victimhood and humiliation: working class is the victim of a rigged system, exploited by capital elite. 3. Hierarchy and dehumanization: world is split into oppressors (landlords, rich people, etc) and oppress…

I've long described the bureaucratic authoritarian corporatist state as building fascism from the other direction, ala inverted totalitarianism . But your list is a conflation of a lot of things - some valid critiques, straightforward responses to the open fascism of the Republican party, and some flat out straw men (eg there are no significant numbers of people " dreaming of the lost socialist utopia of USSR "). And…

>eg. there are no significant numbers of people "dreaming of the lost socialist utopia of USSR"

You seem to be in the happy group of people who have never visited the Lemmy main site. Although you may be right about "significant numbers" even if that site seems to be full of them. They might literally all be there.

Re: Ten Signs of Fascism. America has all of them

#120

Post by mindslight »

itsnotchow54 wrote: post #14

Donald Trump strikes me as a low-level antichrist who's more honest and upfront about everything, whereas other politicians are more cute and polite about their agendas, or are just stupid in their policy making. But then again, most of politics is corrupt. You really are voting for the lesser of two evils, in that, the choices you're given are all actually evil, no matter what party, platform, or side of the aisle y…

Just because you've used three times the amount of words, doesn't mean you've offered anything beyond the standard Republican rationalizations.

I'm a libertarian who was both sidesing up to 2020 or so, but at this point I'd be a fool to continue. My only real question for people who still support Trump is which of your positive-constructive ideals has he actually succeeded in furthering? Not intermediate steps that are promised to bear fruit any day now, nor goals framed in the negative-destructive like remove illegals, start wars, or owning libs - but actual constructive-positive ideals? Because I've been unable to get a clear answer and I haven't been able to come up with anything myself besides destruction.

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