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Accelerando (2005)

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Re: Accelerando (2005)

#111

Post by stackghost »

underlipton wrote: post #109
spellboots wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I need to know about the project is that the creators didn't read a relatively obscure SciFi book from 2005?

I would feel the same about anyone working in augmented/virtual reality who hadn't read "Rainbows End" or watched any number of XR-focused anime. What do you mean, you can't come up with anything to do with these devices? What do you mean, you're hiring webdevs to make another Snap filter? If you're on the cutting edge, I would expect that your knowledge base includes niche, related texts.

The quality of the prose, the actual craft displayed in the writing of TFBook is... Not great.

I tried to read it but couldn't.

Merely existing does not make a book worthy of being widely read. It's insane to criticize the openclaw team for not having read it.

Re: Accelerando (2005)

#112

Post by cstross »

ian_j_butler wrote: post #40
db48x wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly just invented things, patented them, then brokered the deal, often donating the patents to the Open Patent Foundation in the process so that nobody could monopolize the idea in the medium term. For example, he patented the idea of using uploaded gastropod neural nets to run a nanotech factory on an asteroid, then hired the uploaded gastropods themselves as part of the deal (they wanted to “swim away” from the…

Does he invent things though? Probably more brokering than inventing, and as the "idea guy", whatever he does come up with he doesn't need to build because the world is so overflowing with AI and 3d printers elsewhere. With no need to build, does he spend time on design then? We can imagine, but IIRC, it's not shown, and mostly it is enough to just have an idea. Manfred's a smart guy and a worthy hero, but I think we…

I'm not a fan of actually-existing late-stage capitalism, frankly.

What I want is Banksian fully automated luxury gay space communism.

(You can quote me on that. I hate what tech has turned into.)

Re: Accelerando (2005)

#113

Post by underlipton »

bombcar wrote: post #105
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and verdicts are delivered by AI courts Yeah, I don't see that one. I don't see the legal system, the one that has people with guns to back it, giving up authority to an AI or a group of AIs.

The courts can almost entirely be bypassed by arbitration agreements. Look for AI arbitration sooner rather than later.

A couple of years ago, Steam made everyone accept a new ToS that required going through courts for disputes rather than arbitration. This was because some lawyers had realized that they could zerg rush arbitration with claims that Valve was obligated to deal with individually, and pay the fees to do so (IIRC). This effectively meant that the lawyers could extract settlements from Valve, because the alternative was massive losses from those arbitration fees, whether or not the claims had merit.

All this to say that there's a weakness in arbitration agreements as they currently exist which means that companies incur a cost when forcing consumers to use arbitration (as they should). Waiting for the first company to be instantly bankrupted by some event related to this.

Re: Accelerando (2005)

#114

Post by jauntywundrkind »

lxgr wrote: post #67
growt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more fitting is the part of the story where a collective of uploaded lobster minds are involved. I wonder if that was an inspiration for the "OpenClaw" name somehow or just pure coincidence.

The fact that the OpenClaw creators seemingly missed that parallel tells you everything you need to know about the project.

One of the robots ("moravecs" (amazing)) in Dan Simmons' Ilium was also crustacean formed: Orphu of Io (and his friend Mahnmut. Beat Charles to that particular weird coincidence-to-be by plus or minus a year!

It's not quite as memorable or as strong a theme as Accelerando laid down. But still quite a serendipity, imo.

Edit: oh, Charlie is down thread pointing out Lobsters was published on 2002, written 1998. Nice. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48163630

Re: Accelerando (2005)

#115

Post by juliendorra »

cstross wrote: post #110
utilityhotbar wrote: post #20

This was written in 2005(!) -> > Manfred drains his beer glass, sets it down, stands up, and begins to walk along the main road, phone glued to the side of his head. He wraps his throat mike around the cheap black plastic casing, pipes the input to a simple listener process. "Are you saying you taught yourself the language just so you could talk to me?" > "Da, was easy: Spawn billion-node neural network, and download…

This was written in 2005(!) -> No, I wrote that in 1998. It was published as the novelette "Lobsters" in Asimov's SF Magazine in 2002, made the Hugo and Nebula shortlists in 2003 (it didn't win), and later became the opening of the novel published in 2005. I emphasized: the direction things were going in was obvious in the late 90s . And don't *ever* let anyone tell you that Accelerando is techno-optimistic or pro-AI…

Yes, it was obvious maybe even in the 60s for a few, and it has been fantasized by many, but you wrote it as a cohesive, nearly deterministic, and fluid story. Your deep understanding of some fundamental issues (like latency) that you turned into consequences instead of brushing them off is what made it so perfect as a very tangible and possible future. One read and it never left me

Re: Accelerando (2005)

#116

Post by motoroco »

colinb wrote: post #11

Do I remember correctly that one of the major characters in what we would now call an influencer with always-on video glasses? I think his spectacles get slashdotted at one point. I’m not sure which is the greater anachronism got me. That I didn’t find the idea of endless surveillance creep glasses bothersome at the time I read the book or that slashdotting is in itself a once current, now newly archaic term.

I read it as a sort of prisoner's dilemma. If I'm being tracked and monitored everywhere I go, then it's in my best interests to do the same

Re: Accelerando (2005)

#117

Post by grehbies »

cstross wrote: post #110
utilityhotbar wrote: post #20

This was written in 2005(!) -> > Manfred drains his beer glass, sets it down, stands up, and begins to walk along the main road, phone glued to the side of his head. He wraps his throat mike around the cheap black plastic casing, pipes the input to a simple listener process. "Are you saying you taught yourself the language just so you could talk to me?" > "Da, was easy: Spawn billion-node neural network, and download…

This was written in 2005(!) -> No, I wrote that in 1998. It was published as the novelette "Lobsters" in Asimov's SF Magazine in 2002, made the Hugo and Nebula shortlists in 2003 (it didn't win), and later became the opening of the novel published in 2005. I emphasized: the direction things were going in was obvious in the late 90s . And don't *ever* let anyone tell you that Accelerando is techno-optimistic or pro-AI…

I would take this opportunity to chastise you for merely the Wikipedia article for Accelerando tripping my chronophobia/technophobia and giving me an existential crisis, but if I'm being honest, IHNMAIMS, Battle Angel Alita, Space, Inc., and BattleTanx got to me first.

Re: Accelerando (2005)

#118

Post by collingreen »

cwillu wrote: post #107
nozzlegear wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will be very hard (and only get harder) for humans to fight through the deluge of slop, especially if the slop is weaponized as a kind of DoS like in the book. I don't expect laws are strong enough to hold this back but I don't know any other tool in our collective toolboxes. We don't need to fret about finding a technical solution to slop in the real world. Courts have a mechanism to fight this kind of thing (o…

“Binding arbitration: The parties agree to surrender their rights to litigate under this provision.”

This is exactly my concern as well. Take it a step further and make it explicitly ai arbitration and that will really be something.

Re: Accelerando (2005)

#119

Post by underlipton »

motoroco wrote: post #116
colinb wrote: post #11

Do I remember correctly that one of the major characters in what we would now call an influencer with always-on video glasses? I think his spectacles get slashdotted at one point. I’m not sure which is the greater anachronism got me. That I didn’t find the idea of endless surveillance creep glasses bothersome at the time I read the book or that slashdotting is in itself a once current, now newly archaic term.

I read it as a sort of prisoner's dilemma. If I'm being tracked and monitored everywhere I go, then it's in my best interests to do the same

Ding ding ding.

Tragically unexamined, also, is that the push for surveillance of late is almost certainly a reaction to the reverse-surveillance consumer networked tech - and, specifically, connected camera-enabled smartphones and the networks/software needed to instantly share what's being recorded - enabled, flipping the asymmetry of the then-extant surveillance state in the early-mid 2010s. A lot of powerful people really, really hated that Rodney King and its attendant embarrassment to law enforcement was becoming a monthly occurrence. Humiliation is what moves power, after all.

Re: Accelerando (2005)

#120

Post by picsao »

rbanffy wrote: post #57
jahala wrote: post #30

I absolutely LOVE Accelerando. I've recommended it to everyone I meet for years. If you're looking for other great sci-fi reads: John Ringo - Live free or die John Varley - Titan (-> Wizard / Demon) Charles Stross - Singularity Sky Vernor Vinge - A Fire Upon the Deep / A Deepness in the Sky Robert Heinlein - Stranger in a Strange Land Dan Simmons - Hyperion Alastair Reynolds - Revelation Space / The Prefect Orson Sco…

I think Singularity Skies pales in comparison with the depth and breadth of Accelerando. Ender's Game and Foundation are timeless classics, and I suspect, Accelerando will eventually become one.

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