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Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

arkadiyt.com

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Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#111

Post by ezfe »

arkadiyt wrote: post #88
ezfe wrote: post #41

> Even after the modem is removed, if you connect your phone to the car via Bluetooth then the car will use your phone as an internet connection and send all the same telemetry data back to Toyota What is the basis for this claim? I've never heard of this capability.

It's from the linked rav4world post

> One caveat, if you use bluetooth to connect your phone to the car DCM will use your phone to connect to the mother ship and presumably send your data. I only use my iPhone cable to connect to the car which does not have this effect.

A random post on a forum is not evidence that Toyota has found a magic way to exfiltrate data over a bluetooth connection without turning on hotspot/etc.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#112

Post by embedding-shape »

Jblx2 wrote: post #106
embedding-shape wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get CarPlay/Android Auto that way though, so no navigation/maps for example.

Are there any cars that support CarPlay/Android Auto that don't have built-in navigation/maps?

AFAIK, every single one of those "built-in navigation/maps" either require the car itself is internet connected (with its own modem), or that you every year get a SD card with map updates to stick into the car.

I guess it's fine in an emergency, but I wouldn't want to use it day-by-day, the live traffic/road closure information in my case ends up saving us tons of time over the year.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#113

Post by tadfisher »

vk6flab wrote: post #82
Angostura wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standard Carplay is essentially an additional screen for your phone - your existiing privacy settings carry across. What's your concern?

Unfortunately that's not quite true, since the "app screen" on the media display during Android Auto use has an additional "Toyota" icon that AFAIK isn't coming from my phone. What's more concerning is that it's entirely unclear exactly what information is shared over the Android Auto link, in my case, over Bluetooth.

There's a protobuf-based API for two-way communication between the Android Auto app and the head unit [0]. It depends on what the headunit supports, but this includes data such as GPS location, steering wheel button activation, accelerometer data, parking brake activation, gear selection, touch screen input, dimmer switch position, odometer, and much more.

A lot of this has obvious use within the AA interface; for example, the parking brake position is used to prevent scrolling too far through lists, and the car's GPS is usually much more accurate than the phone's and better on the phone battery.

0: https://github.com/f1xpl/aasdk/tree/development/aasdk_proto (pretty old reverse-engineering effort)

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#114

Post by brewdad »

mono442 wrote: post #77

Modern cars are horrible. I recently discovered that all new cars sold in the EU constantly beep at you for supposedly speeding, even though the system doesn’t work well, and it has to be turned off every time you start the car.

Isn't eye tracking required there too now? If you look away, or even not in the direction the car expects, for more than a couple of seconds >> more beeps.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#115

Post by skiing_crawling »

inahga wrote: post #97

Has anyone experienced a case where they needed an over-the-air safety update/recall performed, but weren't able to because they removed the cellular modem? I'd like to think failure to apply an OTA safety update would trigger a mail-out notification requesting you bring the vehicle into the dealer. But that's probably optimistic...

Its probably an antipattern on a car to need an OTA "safety" update in the first place.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#116

Post by themafia »

Animats wrote: post #62

How good a position can you get from GPS today in receive only mode? You can download and store Open Street Map for individual states. Map data doesn't have to come in over the air. That's not the problem. It's enhancing GPS with cell phone tower data that's the problem. That requires a cell connection.

GPS is exceedingly accurate compared to cellular signals on it's own. What it isn't is fast. So the "enhanced GPS" is mostly just proving satellite ephemerides so your GPS device can lock onto the overhead satellites faster.

If your device has zero GPS signal then you can get ~100m accuracy from the cellular signals alone. If your device doesn't have "enhanced GPS" then you can get ~1m accuracy from the GPS signals alone.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#117

Post by bigfishrunning »

razakel wrote: post #107
zekyl314 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, and more and more places are removing cash as a payment option :(

Cash handling isn't free, and for smaller businesses might actually end up being more expensive than accepting electronic payments.

If your margins are so razor thin that the cost of handling cash is significant, you need to raise your prices. Cash is legal tender -- not accepting it for in-person transactions is really shitty (maybe shouldn't be allowed?)

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#118

Post by fc417fc802 »

brewdad wrote: post #105
arkadiyt wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's still a fuse for the DCM even in this car but: - It has an internal battery and will keep running for quite a while after pulling the fuse. This is a safety feature in case you get in a crash that disconnects the 12V battery - It will break your in-car microphone as discussed. Repairing that requires opening up the dash - That won't do anything for disconnecting the GPS antenna

GPS is receive only. If you've disabled the ability to send telemetry, there should be no reason to be concerned about the GPS antenna.

If it keeps collecting telemetry it could upload it later if it ever gets the chance. Better it isn't collected in the first place.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#119

Post by whamlastxmas »

dualvariable wrote: post #65
embedding-shape wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And once you've gotten rid of Google and Apple, your telecom company tracks you, your CC payments help track you and even cameras in public do. It's hard to not want to throw your hands in the air screaming "whatever" when almost everything you use in public is somehow used to track you either as you move around, or in the future.

This is one of those things that can't ever be solved with individual solutions but needs to be solved through legislation and standards, and ideally a fundamental right to privacy (and a fundamental redefinition of what privacy means when it comes to corporate surveillance of individuals).

[flagged]

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#120

Post by nullc »

xattt wrote: post #44
everdrive wrote: post #30

The 2024 Ford Maverick has a single fuse for the telematics unit that you can remove without throwing a code or an error. No idea if this remained true after the 2025-2026 refresh, but worth knowing. https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/telematics-f...

Kias have a “Massachusetts mode” flag hidden behind a service menu (that needs a dealer code) that disables telematics at the owner’s request. However, the service menu pin also has timeout protection that will inject a waiting period between retries so there is no guessing. I don’t think there’s convincing my dealer to get into the service menu and disabling it. I would presume that other manufacturers might have th…

> Kias have a “Massachusetts mode” flag hidden behind a service menu (that needs a dealer code) that disables telematics at the owner’s request.

I would be very concerned that the flag just continues to submit your data but with a "telematics disabled" bit set on it. This is absolutely how location privacy is implemented in some devices. Moreover, even if it is effective it could be remotely reset including accidentally as part of an update.

Better than not setting it, I suppose! :)

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