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The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

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Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#111

Post by 6510 »

Henchman21 wrote: post #87
mrhottakes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same "give me a lot of money and everything will be great for everyone!" pitch that rich guys have been running for the history of humanity.

It is almost like the interconnectedness the internet has given us has laid bare the fact that human institutions aren’t to be trusted. That the longer an institution exists the further it drifts from whatever its stated purpose. That they all tend towards corruption, aggregation of power, and actions that are by most people’s definition evil . Or something :)

I haven't decided which word I like best to describe it but if the citizens are not on the same team or if there isn't a team anymore everything goes to shit. Collective/community/unity etc

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#112

Post by palmotea »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #5

People like Altman and Musk are saying that Universal Basic Income will be necessary once AI has fully automated away most jobs, but at the same time they aggressively fight against any kind of tax policy that would allow UBI to function. I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving; they're trying to convince us that there will be a solution to the destruction of the economy as we know it, so that we'll…

> I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving; they're trying to convince us that there will be a solution to the destruction of the economy as we know it, so that we'll just let them do whatever they want.

This is exactly it. Also, even if UBI is implemented:

1) It's probably going to be just enough to let one scrape by as a member of a permanent underclass. You will not be comfortable on it.

2) I doubt it will be permanent, there will be a rug-pull once said underclass has been politically neutered. They'll kill off the UBI deprivation, mainly because they just don't care about those people.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#113

Post by aspenmartin »

mrhottakes wrote: post #51
aspenmartin wrote: post #45

Ignoring CEO predictions, can anyone point to any major revolutionary technology that had a net negative impact on quality of life and employment statistics? AI is an incredibly powerful technological shift in our way of life but where is the net employment hit taking place? Unemployment numbers remain stable. Revolutions like this do create widening inequality while also increasing long run productivity. Yes inequal…

You are confusing the macro view with the personal. Try losing your job and being told "don't worry, your quality of life will improve over time!" Would you respond positively?

My point is: you can say the exact same thing for any other major technological revolution. Would you have preferred we stopped making the internet because some people didn’t fare well in the transition? The genie is out of the bottle so what do people want to happen here?

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#114

Post by palmotea »

Henchman21 wrote: post #87
mrhottakes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same "give me a lot of money and everything will be great for everyone!" pitch that rich guys have been running for the history of humanity.

It is almost like the interconnectedness the internet has given us has laid bare the fact that human institutions aren’t to be trusted. That the longer an institution exists the further it drifts from whatever its stated purpose. That they all tend towards corruption, aggregation of power, and actions that are by most people’s definition evil . Or something :)

> It is almost like the interconnectedness the internet has given us has laid bare the fact that human institutions aren’t to be trusted. That the longer an institution exists the further it drifts from whatever its stated purpose. That they all tend towards corruption, aggregation of power, and actions that are by most people’s definition evil.

Careful with that. I think that kind of perfectionist, all-or-nothing thinking is an echo of the propaganda meant to help the rich guys' pitch. Basically: "doesn't the government suck because it's not perfect? Kill it! (BTW, it's also the only thing powerful enough keep the rich guys under control, so increasing distrust sets them free)."

I think the reality is human institutions require work to function, and if the common people are either too lazy or too busy to do that work, they get corrupted. Also, a certain level of unity is required, and maintaining that unity has been extremely unfashionable for many decades.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#115

Post by pllbnk »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #5

People like Altman and Musk are saying that Universal Basic Income will be necessary once AI has fully automated away most jobs, but at the same time they aggressively fight against any kind of tax policy that would allow UBI to function. I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving; they're trying to convince us that there will be a solution to the destruction of the economy as we know it, so that we'll…

UBI is a scapegoat, an easy answer to handwave the question about the job losses. People can't just live like that doing nothing and they won't. Before the current AI evolution the pro-UBI crowd would claim that in this utopia people would not need to work and they could create art. Now AI can create art and we see that with infinite supply it loses any kind of value.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#116

Post by nullocator »

dehrmann wrote: post #100
mrhottakes wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon's companies famously pay very little in taxes, he spent last year attempting to gut the federal government, he complains constantly about how much he pays in taxes, and he's been very vocal about California's recent efforts to tax very wealthy people.

The California Billionaire Tax is a bad idea. It's not that wealth taxes can't work (most of the US taxes property just fine), it's that taxes need to be fair and predictable. The phase-in is too narrow and its implementation is too arbitrary. Why $1B? Why $5%? Why won't CA voters hit up billionaires again?

Why is my tax rate 30-40%? Why are billionaires like 0.1%? Why won't the U.S. and state governments hit me up every single paycheck, year after year?

Like holy smokes, who amongst these rich men will not be harmed!

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#117

Post by bluecheese452 »

mrhottakes wrote: post #36
cjs_ac wrote: post #22

> Already, as many as a quarter of Americans seem accepting of violence as a tool for achieving political change. I'm surprised it's only a quarter: violence as a tool for achieving political change is the entire point of the right to bear arms. EDIT: I'm not arguing for or against political violence, just noting an apparent inconsistency between Americans' views and one of the documents that they talk about as thoug…

It's 100% accurate to say that the history of the United States is filled to the brim with political change via violence.

And you can extend that to the history of the world. Change via non violent means is a historical aberration. We hold those examples up because they are so rare.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#118

Post by Henchman21 »

palmotea wrote: post #114
Henchman21 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is almost like the interconnectedness the internet has given us has laid bare the fact that human institutions aren’t to be trusted. That the longer an institution exists the further it drifts from whatever its stated purpose. That they all tend towards corruption, aggregation of power, and actions that are by most people’s definition evil . Or something :)

> It is almost like the interconnectedness the internet has given us has laid bare the fact that human institutions aren’t to be trusted. That the longer an institution exists the further it drifts from whatever its stated purpose. That they all tend towards corruption, aggregation of power, and actions that are by most people’s definition evil. Careful with that. I think that kind of perfectionist, all-or-nothing th…

> Careful with that

Fair point -- none of us want to be in the situation where all our current institutions have failed and there's nothing to replace them. That is chaos and anarchy and a true mess. Even the most hardened ideologues put in that environment would want a more orderly society. "Order" is another word to be careful of.

> I think the reality is human institutions require work to function, and if the common people are either too lazy or too busy to do that work, they get corrupted. Also, a certain level of unity is required, and maintaining that unity has been extremely unfashionable for many decades.

We agree on this as well. We currently don't put in the work to make a good and just society. I don't think it's that we're too lazy en masse, but too busy rings true. Too distracted as well.

Our "elites" have set about breaking up our unity, fracturing us into smaller groups that can be managed. The "fashion" is definitely to denigrate anything and everything that would build unity. Judge the other. Accuse the foreigner. Demonize those who look different.

But that interconnectedness has woken many people up. The people are starting to see clearly now that what has been required for much of human history may no longer be required. And so we see the existing power structure panic, and try and double down on whats worked in the past: violence, divide and conquer, rule through force.

Obviously I can't know the outcome. But it feels like we're all at a moment in history where major change is coming, which might be great or might be a new level of living hell.

I'm glad I'm around to watch what happens :)

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#119

Post by _DeadFred_ »

Henchman21 wrote: post #87
mrhottakes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same "give me a lot of money and everything will be great for everyone!" pitch that rich guys have been running for the history of humanity.

It is almost like the interconnectedness the internet has given us has laid bare the fact that human institutions aren’t to be trusted. That the longer an institution exists the further it drifts from whatever its stated purpose. That they all tend towards corruption, aggregation of power, and actions that are by most people’s definition evil . Or something :)

'Teeth suck because if you don't keep them maintained they degrade over time'

Isn't like the basic of reality that everything drifts? If you want to keep order it is a constant task, not a onetime creation be it an institution or a house?

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#120

Post by Henchman21 »

6510 wrote: post #111
Henchman21 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is almost like the interconnectedness the internet has given us has laid bare the fact that human institutions aren’t to be trusted. That the longer an institution exists the further it drifts from whatever its stated purpose. That they all tend towards corruption, aggregation of power, and actions that are by most people’s definition evil . Or something :)

I haven't decided which word I like best to describe it but if the citizens are not on the same team or if there isn't a team anymore everything goes to shit. Collective/community/unity etc

"Anarchy" seems appropriate
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