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New stainless steel can survive conditions for hydrogen production in seawater

sciencedaily.com

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Re: New stainless steel can survive conditions for hydrogen production in seawater

#111
post #108
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, my thought would have been the opposite: in a situation like this—where nobody tries the thing because “everybody knows” it’s counterproductive—I’d expect AI literature surveys to confidently assert received wisdom. It sounds from the quote like even the researchers thought it was a mistake at first… and that on the basis of the literature PLUS their collective professional wisdom. Now, obviously, they did in fa…

LLMs don't rely completely on received wisdom. The training process works in a higher dimensional space so some data points that might seem unrelated to humans end up being clustered close together if there is a hidden or unrecognized relationship.

True, but the clusters do come from somewhere—namely the training set and the input. The more technical the literature, the sparser the prior work; the more answers depend on labwork, the less the bottleneck is purely symbolic reasoning or data-retrieval-at-scale.

To hear it from the researchers, this feels like the sort of finding that, even in retrospect, is non-obvious from existing literature.

I remember hearing scientific progress described in terms of punctuated equilibrium: some Big New Idea, then a bunch of work generalizing that new idea to the rest of the problem space. I could see AI tools speeding up the second type of work: taking a new framework and chewing through everything that came before, in that new light.

But I have a hard time thinking about how the AI techniques could produce novel, surprising outcomes like this one—ones where it’s not just a permutation of existing knowledge, but where it turns out reality actually cuts against the accumulated written knowledge that came before. The “there is magic to be explained here!” aspect of science.

Re: New stainless steel can survive conditions for hydrogen production in seawater

#112
If this is just a second layer, then it cannot be welded during on-site manufacturing nor for repair. If that is true, this isn't a major breakthrough for maritime. Things-of-scale need to be welded to be manufactured at said scale.

Re: New stainless steel can survive conditions for hydrogen production in seawater

#113
post #63
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, some products of methane-chlorine reaction are much less desirable than methane.

If you react large amounts of methane and chlorine, the methyl radicals will react with molecular chlorine to make methyl chloride. But if the methane and chlorine are dilute, as they would be here, the methyl radicals with react with something else (like oxygen) first. Destruction of methane by chlorine has been observed naturally, for example after the Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai eruption in 2022 (although the chlori…

The link points out that formaldehyde is one product of the methane-Cl reactions. Not sure we're better off with the formaldehyde (and its own further reaction products) than with the methane.

They're not exactly talking about destroying methane. The methane is turning into chlorinated organic compounds.

Re: New stainless steel can survive conditions for hydrogen production in seawater

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I truly do not understand the fixation with hydrogen as a fuel Not everything is about "muh EV". There is a reason that countries that have built significant Solar PV and Wind Turbine manufacturing capacity like China, Germany, SK, Japan, and India have also been investing in H2. H2 as an energy market helps subsidize additional H2 usecases such as Ammonia/NH3 production for fertilizers (this has become critical du…

You don't need hydrogen to smelt, refine, recycle, whatever, metal. You build an electric arc furnace.

Furnaces don't refine metals just by themselves.

Factorio may be an excellent game, but life is more complicated than it.

Re: New stainless steel can survive conditions for hydrogen production in seawater

#116
Making hydrogen from seawater is not an actual problem that needs solving.

The problem with hydrogen electrolysis is its energy requirements to split water. The energy requirements for the desalination of water before that is a rounding error. It's not worth the hassle to develop electrolyzers that can deal with seawater.

Re: New stainless steel can survive conditions for hydrogen production in seawater

#117
post #116

Making hydrogen from seawater is not an actual problem that needs solving. The problem with hydrogen electrolysis is its energy requirements to split water. The energy requirements for the desalination of water before that is a rounding error. It's not worth the hassle to develop electrolyzers that can deal with seawater.

Desalination is not the only application of seawater electrolysis.

Re: New stainless steel can survive conditions for hydrogen production in seawater

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, the experience building nuclear reactors is mixed bag. Some builds failed, like Flamanville 3, Hinkley Point C, Vogtle 3. Some builds succeeded: Barakah nuclear power plant, Fuqing 5,6. It really depends on maturity of supply line and political support.

The real question is: how do we produce hydrogen from the coming massive overbuilding of cheap-but-variable solar. Nuclear reactors are a whole different animal: even if we build them "cheaply" they're not going to approach the costs of overbuilt solar, so those nuclear watts will be better used for other purposes.

Coupling PV to electrolyzers and efficient hydrogen production using solar energy is still open research problem. Batteries will be probably needed.

"The low efficiency of PV-electrolyzer systems can be attributed to several factors: intrinsic losses in both the PV and electrolyzer units, energy consumption by balance-of-system components (e.g., inverters, thermal management), and, most critically, ineffective electrical coupling. Although some researchers advocate for direct coupling as a cost-effective solution, variable solar input remains a major challenge. Fluctuations in solar irradiance can cause the power delivered to fall outside the acceptable operating range of electrolyzers, leading to frequent shut-downs and start-ups. These cycling events can accelerate degradation, particularly in PEM electrolyzers, and also affect the purity and yield of hydrogen"

"Recent studies also highlight the integration of battery energy storage systems (BESS) into large-scale PV-CSP hybrid plants as a strategic enhancement. With anticipated declines in battery costs, this integrated approach may become increasingly viable in the near future."

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s44373-025-00080-4

Re: New stainless steel can survive conditions for hydrogen production in seawater

#119
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With CO2 emitting option is priced out or banned, direct hydrogen production using high temperature sulfur–iodine cycle without H2 electrolysers could be economic option. The heat could be supplied from high temperature nuclear reactor.

Back to the corrosion discussion from the original article: when handling sulphuric acid at 800C, what kind of piping material do you need?

Glass coated steel, silicon carbide.

"Material selection, simulation, and experimentation of sulfuric acid decomposition in a pilot-scale sulfur-iodine thermochemical cycle for hydrogen production"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00162...

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