Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

apnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 131 posts

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#111

Post by JKCalhoun »

sixie6e wrote: post #85
JKCalhoun wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you are going to be outraged, at least be consistent about it." I (and others) need to be educated about it first. I know, for example, the risks of cigarettes because it is on every pack in the U.S.

That's wild to me that that is how you know the risks of cigarettes. I forget just how many people rely on corporate authority to "warn" them of everything. That puts many of my peers in a constant state of fear. I put the word warn in quotes because it is only to insulate themselves against future lawsuits and revenue loss.

I just used it as an obvious example. I knew cigarettes caused cancer at some point growing up. I'm concerned of course about the abundance of products that I don't know about—wishing as a community we did more to label those.

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#112

Post by 486sx33 »

cheesecakegood wrote: post #103

I guess a little bit of background is helpful, which most people don’t realize, about carpet production. A lot (a LOT) of carpet is some variant of polyester since it’s just a really nice durability + cost + stain resistance mix (although the latter is one of its big weaknesses comparatively, important to note). Thus there is significant demand for stain guard options. Compounded on top of that is because although yo…

No one dunks finished carpet in dye. The dye house dyes the fiber, pre construction. https://youtu.be/FG2-af0xYOA

The treatments like stain master are/were the problem, not the dye.

Carpet is a wonderful product, even polys. It’s good we’re having a conversation about it, but vinyl flooring has far out passed carpet , and it is full of awful carcinogens, made in china, not disclosed, secret recipes. But , it can be unstable and release into your home / office / work place

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#113

Post by peter_d_sherman »

It would be tremendously interesting, I think, to learn all of the Chemistry involved in carpet manufacturing, both historical and current-day, both for carpets which are manufactured domestically and those manufactured abroad (different regulatory frameworks = probable different and/or subtly different chemical processes)...

Now, that sounds really boring and potentially a waste of time, right?

Well, yes, and no, and yes!

Well it's complicated!

I would speculate (being horrendously undereducated on the subject!) that there probably exist a set of chemical processes which could create Carpets without any harmful environmental waste or residual chemicals which subsequently require disposal.

What these would be or could be, I as-of-yet do not know...

It's a subject that needs research... a lot of research... lots and lots of research!

But, while it might sound like a really boring, uninteresting, "there's nothing to see here" kind of goal, keep in mind this quote from the article:

>"Mohawk logged more than $3.4 billion in net sales. Shaw Industries reported $4.2 billion."

Yup, the global carpet market is worth... (wait for it!)... "Billion$"!

So -- an interesting problem for present and future Scientists/Chemists! Crack it (in whole or in part!) and your solution or partial solution could be worth Billion$!

I mean, I'd put that up against a Clay Millennium Prize for solving a complex Math problem, I'd put that against a Nobel Prize or Fields Medal or Dirac Medal or Feynman Prize!

Yup, solve The Carpet Chemistry Problem(tm) (let's give it a name!) -- and your share of Billion$ (as Carl Sagan would say!) could be yours! :-)

(I now will humbly submit this post for the obligatory yes-I-know-they-are-coming downvotes! :-) )

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#114

Post by xp84 »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #72
xp84 wrote: post #65

I had a question which most of the article just barely touched on: a lot of attention goes to how much PFAS is detected in people’s blood, but I wanted to know (A) what the harms are, and (B) how strong the evidence is for each one, since afaik they aren’t and probably can’t do randomized trials where they just spray a bunch of Scotchgard in the mouths of half the test subjects. Using an AI answer as a jumping off po…

Please don’t dump ai slop here.

I fail to see the harm done, I explicitly called it out as not verified. I just thought someone else might want to see the list of what actual harms are somewhat proven - instead of this vague sense of dread we’re told to have about “forever chemicals.”

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#115

Post by herworkplace »

I grew up in Dalton and went to school with the children of these carpet company leaders (many of whom are now senior members of those same companies). My parents still live there.

It doesn’t surprise me that Dalton Utilities operated poorly and appears to have been in cahoots with the carpet companies to cover up the risk. Dalton is a place where education isn’t always valued but relationships are. Plus, carpet is the back bone of the economy there — issues with carpet impact the community heavily, making it difficult for anyone to stand in its way.

There’s a real sense of fear and helplessness in the community there as this information comes out.

It’s a lesson in the dangers of unregulated capitalism, but it only matters if we’re paying attention. There’s a role for government to support and protect citizens from companies whether it’s PFAs or AI.

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#116

Post by herworkplace »

herworkplace wrote: post #115

I grew up in Dalton and went to school with the children of these carpet company leaders (many of whom are now senior members of those same companies). My parents still live there. It doesn’t surprise me that Dalton Utilities operated poorly and appears to have been in cahoots with the carpet companies to cover up the risk. Dalton is a place where education isn’t always valued but relationships are. Plus, carpet is t…

If you really want to get a feel for Dalton in the 90s, you should read this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1990/02/19/...

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#117

Post by sixie6e »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #111
sixie6e wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's wild to me that that is how you know the risks of cigarettes. I forget just how many people rely on corporate authority to "warn" them of everything. That puts many of my peers in a constant state of fear. I put the word warn in quotes because it is only to insulate themselves against future lawsuits and revenue loss.

I just used it as an obvious example. I knew cigarettes caused cancer at some point growing up. I'm concerned of course about the abundance of products that I don't know about—wishing as a community we did more to label those.

Anthropocentric thought is a problem and it shows. How about as a community not needing corporations to tell you how to exist while they destroy ecosystems around us? Maybe if they label everything, that'll make it alllllllll okay.

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#118

Post by expedition32 »

pnw wrote: post #84
deaux wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is definitely different in this particular aspect. The balance of powers in "state vs corporations" is completely different from the US. And China is seeing massive benefits from this particular aspect of its country, it's closely related to their ascension vs. the decline of the US in particular. Before people turn to Reddit-style downvoting and flagging, this isn't a vouch for China as a country on the whole.…

China's problems with PFAS are substantially worse than the US. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/398603137_Global_in...

China is tightening regulations and trying to clean up their country.

Trump is waging war on the EPA.

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#119

Post by expedition32 »

echelon wrote: post #20
derriz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people extol the virtues of manufacturing, I’m always reminded of the poll where 80% of Americans say that the country would benefit from a bigger manufacturing base but only 25% are interested in actually working in manufacturing. This isn’t an American thing btw - I’ve had arguments with brits and others who argue passionately that the country has been destroyed by the relative decline in manufacturing but whe…

Dalton has been the worldwide leader in carpet manufacturing since before I was born. Multiple generations of people have worked in those factories. They earn good money and can afford big houses and savings. You should talk to the people of Dalton. They're really proud of it. The first thing they tell you is they're from the "carpet capital of the world". Without fail they will mention that to you. It's so ingrained…

Yeah that's all well and good but eventually these people retire and figure out their bodies are too broken to enjoy retirement.

Re: America's carpet capital: an empire and its toxic legacy

#120

Post by kjkjadksj »

xp84 wrote: post #114
kjkjadksj wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t dump ai slop here.

I fail to see the harm done, I explicitly called it out as not verified. I just thought someone else might want to see the list of what actual harms are somewhat proven - instead of this vague sense of dread we’re told to have about “forever chemicals.”

Well what you returned is not exactly that it is dubious ai slop that is just as vague
Post reply on HN