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IBM didn't want Microsoft to use the Tab key to move between dialog fields

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: IBM didn't want Microsoft to use the Tab key to move between dialog fields

#111

Post by OhMeadhbh »

Joker_vD wrote: post #76
OhMeadhbh wrote: post #60

I think we should connect game controllers to all machines so the arrow buttons move you between fields, the 'A' key takes you up a level (in hierarchical menus), the 'B' key takes you into a subordinate menu. So to move between fields, you type some data, then take your hands off the keyboard, pick up the game controller, hit the right or left buttons, then put your hands back on the keyboard. It should make you SO…

What a terrific idea! You totally should file a patent. Meanwhile, we'll have to use the next best thing: the mouse.

I'm patenting the idea of adding game controller buttons to a mouse and I'm listing you as a co-inventor.

Re: IBM didn't want Microsoft to use the Tab key to move between dialog fields

#112

Post by Paracompact »

tuetuopay wrote: post #86
dmonitor wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put it where the capslock key currently goes. Not sure what purpose it serves these days.

Its whole purpose is to be remapped as CTRL, as god intended.

Why the need for a third CTRL key, when the only backspace key is currently in Siberia?

Re: IBM didn't want Microsoft to use the Tab key to move between dialog fields

#113

Post by justsomehnguy »

tuetuopay wrote: post #86
dmonitor wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put it where the capslock key currently goes. Not sure what purpose it serves these days.

Its whole purpose is to be remapped as CTRL, as god intended.

Speak for yourself. I prefer SHIFT, I have too much muscle memory with CTRL+ZXCV and just pushing down CTRL down with an edge of my palm.

Re: IBM didn't want Microsoft to use the Tab key to move between dialog fields

#114

Post by eastbound »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #55
ChuckMcM wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked at IBM, I would guess that using the tab key in this way was part of a patent they were pursuing and Microsoft's use would show this to be 'obvious' and thus not patentable. But that is just a guess. In the 80's IBM had a whole class of high level technical people called "Systems Engineers" whose entire job description was to opine on the merits of any given system. Not write systems, not debug them, an…

> I would guess that using the tab key in this way was part of a patent they were pursuing and Microsoft's use would show this to be 'obvious' and thus not patentable. Something that's bothered me about user-facing patents: Let's assume that the idea of using a keyboard key to move between input fields in a software form is not obvious, and in fact is a brilliant stroke of genius the likes of which the world is not l…

> the benefit you get from coming up with this idea is that you can publish it for the world to see, and that's the only way you can benefit from it

That’s your opinion, but it’s not the spirit of the law. I’m personally fully against Intellectual Property, including for movies and music, for reasons that are obvious (public money is being spent aimlessly trying to prevent two private individuals from copying things that are copied by their very nature of being published - or trying to prevent people from using ideas that are contagious - what next, put a copyright on political ideas? on dance moves? on beautiful colors?) but that’s not the law.

> we would have gone thousands of years with no method

There are other methods: The 4 arrows. The tab method is much more efficient and easy to implement, but we would have gone with the 4-arrows-to-navigate-fields method.

Re: IBM didn't want Microsoft to use the Tab key to move between dialog fields

#115

Post by justsomehnguy »

guelo wrote: post #21

Interesting to think how Microsoft is today's Ibm having adopted that beurocratic culture and deep hierarchical org.

It's the size. You can't avoid it and you need a very clera vision, time, will and most important - trusted people to keep the org lean.

But yeah, I sometimes show that Sinofsky's blog entry as an example of difference.

Re: IBM didn't want Microsoft to use the Tab key to move between dialog fields

#116

Post by dylan604 »

ch_123 wrote: post #107
dylan604 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks really strange to have 3 keys right next to each other all pointed in the same direction. As another head scratcher, what is the shift-1 symbol? The exclamation point appears to be the shift next to one of the 3 left arrow keys, but I'm also unfamiliar with the regular unshifted key. Anyone familiar with these?

It's the | symbol. On later generations of IBM terminal keyboard, you'll see | on the shift-1 position, and a separate key with the broken-bar (¦) symbol. For example, on this keyboard, the broken bar is below the backspace key along with the \ character. https://sharktastica.co.uk/image?id=qhTU8QvD The reason for the two different types of bar/pipe characters, and why the original IBM PC keyboards only had the broke…

I had never come across the broken bar before. I feel sorry for those that had to suffer these keys. The keyboard keys themselves look like they have about a mile of travel which was probably exhausting as well. I learned to type on clackity clackity arm typewriters, and those keys were I assumed designed by a masochist. These look even worse

Re: IBM didn't want Microsoft to use the Tab key to move between dialog fields

#118

Post by donatj »

OhMeadhbh wrote: post #110
LeoPanthera wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a feature, not a bug.

You want source code indentation to be random on different machines? I guess. That would make me crazy.

Yes. That is the point.

I can have my tabs look the way I like them. You can have your tabs look the way you like them.

Re: IBM didn't want Microsoft to use the Tab key to move between dialog fields

#119

Post by xenadu02 »

IBM is also the reason MS-DOS doesn't support "-" for options and why it doesn't have devices in the "\DEV" directory on all drives. Support for "/" as path separator survived though!

Many MS folks used Xenix and were fans of Unix and very early DOS had SWITCHCHAR and AVAILDEV config.sys options for these things. But AFAIK IBM threw an absolute fit about it and forced their removal.

The DEV issue is specially annoying because DOS 1 didn't have directories - thus it could not have been much of a compatibility problem. But instead DOS/Windows is stuck being unable to support creating files named "CON" or "COM1" because it assumes device files exist in all directories.

Re: IBM didn't want Microsoft to use the Tab key to move between dialog fields

#120

Post by Nition »

Henchman21 wrote: post #88
coredog64 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft could implement the "Am I doing it wrong?" check via the shell script `/bin/true`

They’d need to install WSL2 first though!

It's a Linux subsystem for Windows so we'll call it Windows Subsystem For Linux.
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