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Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him

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Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him

#111

Post by nsowz »

Marsymars wrote: post #79
walrus01 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I want basically no driver assistance features except maybe an automatic cruise control speed adjustment to vehicle directly in the lane ahead based on forward facing radar data. Many of them seem to be much more troublesome or buggy than they're worth.

The speed limit sign reading tech that displays the most recently posted limit on the nav is pretty nifty. (I'd consider that "driver assistance" even if it doesn't physically control the vehicle.)

Oh god, the speed limit sign reading. I was in a rented car (a Ford) and it basically spent the entire trip beeping. I didn’t spend time investigating, as it wasn’t my car, but I hope that can be disabled…

Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him

#112

Post by rsynnott »

hamasho wrote: post #45

So I skimmed several articles and the reasons why the Theranos CEO was sentenced to 11 years are 1. The scale of the fraud was too big 2. From emails it seemed she intentionally tricked investors 3. The product, medical equipment, endangered patients. I think this can be applied to Tesla too (though I'm not sure there is enough evidence of 2). Shouldn't someone in charge be sentenced to at least a few years?

3 was likely in practice a reason that prosecution was pushed for, but IIRC those claims were the only ones she won on.

Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him

#113

Post by Schiendelman »

fouc wrote: post #110
827a wrote: post #72

The real problem, which I think the article does a poor job of making clear: Tesla sold millions of cars before the current generation Hardware 4 vehicles with $10,000 full self driving packages which never really materialized convincingly ‘full’ self-driving capability. There’s fair arguments for the HW4 vehicles not having FSD either, maybe because it needs to be supervised or isn’t perfect or whatever. But the HW4…

Seems like HW3 has been pretty good since FSD v12.3+ came out. If we describe HW4 as 99% of the way to true FSD, then HW3 is probably 95% of the way. Though approaching 100% (maybe 2x the human standard) is going to be exponentially harder to get to.

I'm reminded of the adage about getting 80% of the way through shipping a product, and then doing the other 80%...

Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him

#115

Post by loloquwowndueo »

roenxi wrote: post #34
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic it’s ok if the car slams itself against a concrete wall - just because it failed to stop in time doesn’t mean it wasn’t driving itself. Self driving cars are supposed to obey the same rules as human drivers.

Well ... yes. By that logic it is the case. It applies to humans too - if a human slams their car into a concrete wall then the human was still driving the car. They did a bad job of it, but they were in fact driving. A car being driven autonomously doesn't imply much about the quality of that driving. They're still going to make bad decisions and have accidents, just like humans do (a friend of mine died slamming th…

> A car being driven autonomously doesn't imply much about the quality of that driving

Only that’s not what they’re selling us - they say autonomous cars are safer than humans, fewer accidents per mile driven, faster reaction times yadda yadda. I think this implies quality and not respecting speed limits is not something that sounds very high-quality. At least not while they have to share the road with humans.

Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him

#116

Post by Schiendelman »

grodriguez100 wrote: post #104
dlcarrier wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation is why the awarded interest rate is 6.75%. That rate was determined by the Consumer Credit Commissioner of Texas, which calculated it using the federal reserve rate, which itself is selected to meet an inflation goal, incorporating current inflation levels as well as the predicted inflationary effect of changing the server rate. If inflation was zero, the interest rate would have been lower. If inflation we…

Yes, this is correct. I meant that the ruling awarded interest from the date of judgement to the date of payment but does not account for Inflation between the date of purchase and the date of judgement. I didn’t mean to imply that interest and inflation are unrelated, I was referring to the two different time periods. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

I think this is right. It incentivizes those harmed to take action early, which helps protect others as well.

Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him

#117

Post by [deleted] »

charcircuit wrote: post #55
AlotOfReading wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common misconception. People tend to think driving is controlling the steering and pedals, so if FSD does those things it must be driving. It's not. Driving is whatever has ultimate responsibility for the vehicle and its occupants. If a cop pulls you over while FSD is enabled, it's not Tesla who's paying the ticket. If FSD has an issue, you're the driver who has to respond. Think of FSD as a very nice cruis…

So if the law says that a human in the car has to be responsible then it is impossible for a self driving car to exist. I do not think tying the definition to legal liability is right. I don't see why self driving couldn't just be steering and pedals. It would be pretty limiting but it would be able to drive itself in a circle at least.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him

#118

Post by angoragoats »

fouc wrote: post #110
827a wrote: post #72

The real problem, which I think the article does a poor job of making clear: Tesla sold millions of cars before the current generation Hardware 4 vehicles with $10,000 full self driving packages which never really materialized convincingly ‘full’ self-driving capability. There’s fair arguments for the HW4 vehicles not having FSD either, maybe because it needs to be supervised or isn’t perfect or whatever. But the HW4…

Seems like HW3 has been pretty good since FSD v12.3+ came out. If we describe HW4 as 99% of the way to true FSD, then HW3 is probably 95% of the way. Though approaching 100% (maybe 2x the human standard) is going to be exponentially harder to get to.

I live in a suburban area in a cold climate. Based on what I've seen of "FSD," it's essentially unusable on most of the roads near me, and doubly so in winter. This is even true on larger highways/freeways, as when snow falls the camera systems can't see the lane markings. Not to mention the fact that some of those roads are so badly maintained that the lane markings are faint to nonexistent.

I don't think Tesla can honestly claim 99%, or 95%, or even 50% of the way to FSD until they solve these issues. Until they do, it's just a fun toy. After all, years ago they were claiming that you'd be able to "summon" a Tesla sans driver from LA to NYC. What happens if there's a winter storm on the way?

Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him

#119

Post by bdangubic »

angoragoats wrote: post #118
fouc wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like HW3 has been pretty good since FSD v12.3+ came out. If we describe HW4 as 99% of the way to true FSD, then HW3 is probably 95% of the way. Though approaching 100% (maybe 2x the human standard) is going to be exponentially harder to get to.

I live in a suburban area in a cold climate. Based on what I've seen of "FSD," it's essentially unusable on most of the roads near me, and doubly so in winter. This is even true on larger highways/freeways, as when snow falls the camera systems can't see the lane markings. Not to mention the fact that some of those roads are so badly maintained that the lane markings are faint to nonexistent. I don't think Tesla can…

it is not even a fun toy because fun toys are fun for kids and no sane person would use FSD wirh a kid in a car

Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him

#120

Post by rpdillon »

charcircuit wrote: post #9

From what I've seen on YouTube the cars do drive themselves. This seems more like the type of thing with AI where people change the goal posts of what AI means. Just because a car did not slow down in a school zone, that doesn't mean that the car wasn't driving itself.

By this definition, putting a brick on the accelerator and tying the steering wheel in place is self-driving.
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