Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

After dissing Anthropic for limiting Mythos, OpenAI restricts access to Cyber

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 139 posts

Re: After dissing Anthropic for limiting Mythos, OpenAI restricts access to Cyber

#111

Post by 2ndorderthought »

VorpalWay wrote: post #92
DivingForGold wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China’s DeepSeek prices new V4 AI model at 97% below OpenAI’s GPT-5.5 Did somebody say that Elon is stealthly funding: Seven lawsuits filed against OpenAI by families of Canada mass-shooting victims As always, when the going get's tough, the tough ultimately resort to lawsuits.

If the difference is that large, it seems plausible to me that the Chinese models are subsidized in order to gain market share, this is not exactly the first time the Chinese government has done so (or at least been rumoured to have done so). You should assume that everyone has a hidden agenda when money is involved.

Why do other model providers who host deepseek v4 have it cheaper than other offerings? Is the Chinese government subsidizing other model providers who download their models for free?

Re: After dissing Anthropic for limiting Mythos, OpenAI restricts access to Cyber

#112

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pluc wrote: post #13

My thinking is that if there would be more money in releasing Mythos and Cyber than there is in just scary unverifiable (or verified using very favorable context - Mythos) propaganda, they would. These aren't people that go for second best or care about the state of the world.

> These aren't people that go for second best or care about the state of the world

My suspicion is an adult in the room realised that simultaneously pissing off every major corporation, government and NGO, and giving them an incentive to bottle you up immediately, could backfire massively.

That an inference for Mythos is probably beyond what Anthropic can provide at scale right now.

Re: After dissing Anthropic for limiting Mythos, OpenAI restricts access to Cyber

#113

Post by JumpCrisscross »

righthand wrote: post #77
vessenes wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They is doing a lot of work in your sentence. Almost the entire employee population signed a public letter of support with names attached in the middle of the drama. More accurate to say the board I think.

Dont forget the US media incessant coverage of a private company’s business matter of firing someone as if it was an unheard of calamity. Pretty incredible that employees will go to bat for a lying scum bag when they would never do that for each other.

> the US media incessant coverage of a private company’s business matter of firing someone as if it was an unheard of

A CEO getting fired, not by the for-profit company's Board, but by a board with a public mission, right after said company released a groundbreaking product that captured the popular imagination and then turned that into a multibillion dollar deal with Microsoft (which in turn parlayed into trillions of dollars of wealth across the economy), is absolutely news.

Re: After dissing Anthropic for limiting Mythos, OpenAI restricts access to Cyber

#114

Post by aesthesia »

authnopuz wrote: post #40
concinds wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These models demonstrably have good vulnerability research capabilities. I'm sure their marketing department is ecstatic but you guys are far more hype-based than what you're calling out.

Good but not necessarily better that was is already pay-as-you-go available today. ref. https://www.flyingpenguin.com/the-boy-that-cried-mythos-veri... This AISLE benchmark is interesting in this matter: https://aisle.com/blog/ai-cybersecurity-after-mythos-the-jag... And the recently discovered Copy Fail by Xint code is another proof that the gating is overblown: https://xint.io/blog/copy-fail-linux-distributions

Calling the AISLE experiment a "benchmark" is generous. They tested three code snippets on each model.

Re: After dissing Anthropic for limiting Mythos, OpenAI restricts access to Cyber

#115

Post by righthand »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #113
righthand wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont forget the US media incessant coverage of a private company’s business matter of firing someone as if it was an unheard of calamity. Pretty incredible that employees will go to bat for a lying scum bag when they would never do that for each other.

> the US media incessant coverage of a private company’s business matter of firing someone as if it was an unheard of A CEO getting fired, not by the for-profit company's Board, but by a board with a public mission, right after said company released a groundbreaking product that captured the popular imagination and then turned that into a multibillion dollar deal with Microsoft (which in turn parlayed into trillions…

Not one worth 4-5 days of coverage as the news media helps sane wash the situation. Pouring over every development as if the end result mattered. OpenAI was already showing signs of abandoning their mission so the news reports weren’t about that. They were about publicizing the situation and turning the tide against the ousters. It was well done but it was not GOOD reporting or GOOD news coverage or even IMPORTANT to cover. We all agree on this and no other people get’s that kind of treatment unless you are wealthy.

You’re also ignoring the biggest aspect: that these employees would never do that for the actual people doing the real work. The employees got played, the public got played, the media got played.

> which in turn parlayed into trillions of dollars of wealth across the economy

This is a fucking laugh. Where’s my and the rest of the economic workers check? Surely there’s trillions of dollars of wealth for all the economic workers if it was truly beneficial. More like stealing trillions of dollars from the working classes via the economy.

No instead things have sky rocketed in cost due to AI CEOs sucking up all the money investing it in…datacenters and raising energy costs for everyone which has a downstream effect of making plenty more expensive while suppressing wages.

Re: After dissing Anthropic for limiting Mythos, OpenAI restricts access to Cyber

#116

Post by dinfinity »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #69

I wonder how long till some breakthrough comes along that makes a new architecture that can run efficiently and cheaper on basic hardware, that'd be the real AI bubble, if you could train and run inference locally at lower cost. Microsoft had one that is supposed to run fine on regular CPUs though I'm not sure how far along we can reasonably take that. They say our brains can store 2.5 PB, but we use drastically less…

> Our bodies use drastically less power too.

To be fair, we compute a lot slower too. No way in hell are you (or I) able to produce 'tokens' at the same speed as current models.

It'd be interesting to see an actual comparison of humans and AI performing the same (cognitive) task and measuring the amount of energy that was used.

Re: After dissing Anthropic for limiting Mythos, OpenAI restricts access to Cyber

#117

Post by SubiculumCode »

cedws wrote: post #100
SubiculumCode wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. By not releasing it, Chinese companies will be unable to break TOS and use it to acquire high quality training data...which, I suspect, is how they've kept pace

Z.AI, Moonshot, DeepSeek all have a pipeline of data of their own now due to capturing a slice of the market through cheap tokens. It's not impossible to imagine that they might share the data too if the CCP thinks that will help their AI strategy.

No. Most data generated this way is poor quality. It's not the user responses and or queries. If the user does not know better than the LLM, you can generate bad responses. The value is in taking a superior model, submitting a query, and getting a higher quality output than you yourself could have generated, and using that to boost your model.

Re: After dissing Anthropic for limiting Mythos, OpenAI restricts access to Cyber

#118

Post by intended »

Borealid wrote: post #88
intended wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are selling an impossible product. If you make an LLM more safe, you are going to shift the weight for defensive actions as well. There’s no physical way to assign weights to have one and not the other.

> If you make an LLM more safe, you are going to shift the weight for defensive actions as well. > > There’s no physical way to assign weights to have one and not the other. Do you think a human is capable of providing assistance with defense but not offense, over a textual communication channel with another human? If no, how does a cybersec firm train its employees? If yes, how can you make the bold claim that it's…

> IMpossible for an LLM to be configured to do the same?

Because that’s what I am seeing emerge from the various efforts to build LLM safety tools.

> Do you think a human is capable of providing assistance with defense but not offense, over a textual communication channel with another human?

LLM != human? They don’t even use the same reasoning process.

Re: After dissing Anthropic for limiting Mythos, OpenAI restricts access to Cyber

#119

Post by Tostino »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #117
cedws wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Z.AI, Moonshot, DeepSeek all have a pipeline of data of their own now due to capturing a slice of the market through cheap tokens. It's not impossible to imagine that they might share the data too if the CCP thinks that will help their AI strategy.

No. Most data generated this way is poor quality. It's not the user responses and or queries. If the user does not know better than the LLM, you can generate bad responses. The value is in taking a superior model, submitting a query, and getting a higher quality output than you yourself could have generated, and using that to boost your model.

You identify users doing real work and implementing a project over a long period of time and train on their traces.

Re: After dissing Anthropic for limiting Mythos, OpenAI restricts access to Cyber

#120

Post by JeremyNT »

throwyawayyyy wrote: post #109
davidgrenier wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I guess two companies who would otherwise be considered going for bankruptcy have models too expensive to run. As they don't see themselves making money any time soon, they have to turn every future model into a weird fascination.

There's a story to tell in that: 1) Google has a transformer-based AI that hallucinates too much to release 2) OpenAI replicates the tech then YOLOs it 3) Everyone says: look how Google is getting left behind! Google thinks: the second mouse gets the cheese. 4) Google gets the cheese, OpenAI is absorbed by Microsoft or just disappears (or both).

Certainly could turn out that way.

TPUs were their real moat. All that capacity used throughout their suite of products on non-chatbot features, ready to rip for consumers once soon as somebody else opened the floodgates to the public.

Now all their competitors lose money on every token paying their cloud providers (of course it's funny money, maybe they're just giving the cloud providers equity) while Google is sitting calmly over there, actually owning everything they need for any eventuality, and beholden to nobody.

Post reply on HN