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The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

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Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#111

Post by aj_hackman »

elmomle wrote: post #100
pocksuppet wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because history is written by the victors, the Luddites were painted as idiots who just hated machines for no reason or dumb reasons. This couldn't be further from the truth.

The sad thing that I haven't been able to resolve in my mind is that this is a cultural multi-party prisoners' dilemma among sovereign entities. From a power-centric point of view, if my neighbors intentionally cast off modern technology, they are ripe for domination, economic exploitation, etc. The history of human civilization from the age of city-states onward is about navigating the need for protection from hosti…

This doesn't account for the potential instability of modern technology. If you have an efficient electric range and your neighbors are still burning wood when the power goes out, you're in dutch. This is relevant to the AI discussion, as there is still a class of people doing things "the old way", and their skills might come in clutch for a society that's let itself atrophy in convenience.

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#112

Post by burnte »

glhaynes wrote: post #47
burnte wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They tell me I don't have a real job because I just tell the computer what to do, and I don't do the thing myself (to which I can't help but respond that they're absolutely right). For most of computing history this has been the case, too!

Can't be doing rEaL woRk unless you're flipping front panel switches to input machine code instructions.

Machine operation is real work! :)

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#113

Post by Izkata »

ModernMech wrote: post #62
alephnerd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The irony is that AI is best at replacing the work of the upper classes This is why the harshest critics of AI tend to be white collar workers of this social class. The same kinds that told coal miners and autoworkers to "learn to code" and called them deplorables for voting nativist in 2016. Any chance to build mutual trust was squandered. The jobs worst impacted by AI are jobs where most of the workers are Democr…

[flagged]

> when they sacked the capitol in a violent insurrection in 2021 waving KKK and Nazi flags.

The narrative gets more extreme with each repetition. None of that actually happened.

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#114

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

Lyngbakr wrote: post #40

> They are being told, on the one hand, that these tools are going to eliminate millions of jobs, and on the other that they have to use them if they don’t want to fall behind. I'm currently reading a fascinating book called Blood In The Machine° about the Luddites who opposed certain technologies in 19th century England and the parallels with the current state of affairs. It's important to remember that while histor…

What is the difference between someone who (a) dislikes some machinery and (b) someone who (i) refuses to use some machinery and (ii) _actively opposes_ the use of some machinery by _anyone_, for example, through sabotage or violence

This submission mentions certain incidents arguably representative of (b) but is squarely focused on (a). It discusses polling young people on what they think of "AI"

The greatest "threat" to "AI" IMHO is (a), where this results in stagnant or decreased usage of "AI"

"AI" is relentlessly hyped because the usage numbers are paramount

IMHO (b) is not a serious threat to usage

For some reason, commenters invested in "AI" seek to characterise (a) as (b)

I'm not sure why

To me, it seems inappropriate to compare (a) a group of people today, i.e., Gen Z, who use some "machinery" but dislike it, according to polling, with (b) a group of people in the 17th century that refused to use some machinery, sabotaged it and violently attacked their employers, some of who threatened they would violently attack their employees

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#115

Post by ModernMech »

Izkata wrote: post #113
ModernMech wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> when they sacked the capitol in a violent insurrection in 2021 waving KKK and Nazi flags. The narrative gets more extreme with each repetition. None of that actually happened.

- The capitol was sacked, we all saw it

- The purpose of the sacking was to prevent the certification of Joe Biden using violence -- an insurrection

- Various far right symbols were displayed by the mob including flags commonly used by KKK and neo nazis to signal their allegiance to white supremacy: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2021/far-r...

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#116

Post by jameslk »

Lyngbakr wrote: post #40

> They are being told, on the one hand, that these tools are going to eliminate millions of jobs, and on the other that they have to use them if they don’t want to fall behind. I'm currently reading a fascinating book called Blood In The Machine° about the Luddites who opposed certain technologies in 19th century England and the parallels with the current state of affairs. It's important to remember that while histor…

The nuance that’s talked less about is that both statements can be and likely will be true, but which way will the balance swing:

1. Many jobs will be eliminated (will they be offset by new jobs?)

2. The new technology will need to be adopted if you don’t want to fall behind (will there be less of these jobs or more?)

In past circumstances like the one you mentioned, there were more jobs than before. Ultimately we all just want to consume endlessly. That pressure creates more demand when prices lower, which causes businesses to compete via differentiation, which creates more jobs. I don’t think this situation will be any different

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#117

Post by deltoidmaximus »

john_strinlai wrote: post #38
School-Cotton wrote: post #11

I don’t understand why people act like we just have to submit to the AI revolution. We can make this technology illegal, and shut it down completely. Why don’t we?

the genie is out of the bottle. no government on earth will make ai outright illegal. they are the perfect thing to shrug accountability onto, let alone all of the actual semi-useful reasons of keeping ai legal. how would you even make it illegal? people have local models everywhere. if your country makes it illegal but mine doesnt, people from your country will just vpn and access them in my country. it would have t…

If the government made it illegal it would just be for you and me. You can bet they'd still use it for mass surveillance processing, sorting people into buckets, AI generated propaganda, etc. And in the United States they'd be likely to leave carve outs for large corporations to continue to abuse it for advertising (including political), copyright laundering, automated price setting, etc. Like when Mattel got caught selling lead painted toys and congress passed legislation forcing all toys to be inspected but left Mattel exempt.

And then you'd still have to defend against AI powered scams (cloned voices, cloned video, bespoke scam campaigns directly targeted at individuals generated by AI with OSINT), social media bot campaigns, AI generated black mail or harassment including deepfakes, etc because that stuff is already largely illegal and either ignored or not feasible to police as it happens across international borders.

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#118

Post by hirvi74 »

isoprophlex wrote: post #20
anianz wrote: post #13

> Freystaetter and Gottlieb both say that instead of their own generation, they are more worried about Gen Alpha and other young people that come after them, who lose their chance to develop healthy relationships with technologies when they become mandatory and ubiquitous. I remember similar concerns from Millennials about Gen-Z with the Internet and social media. In the end the Internet and Social Media Gen-Z grew u…

I have three (gen A) kids, of which two are of the age to have opinions on this. They tell me I don't have a real job because I just tell the computer what to do, and I don't do the thing myself (to which I can't help but respond that they're absolutely right). If I try to spin them a bullshit story, they tell me how can that be true and maybe I got brainwashed by AI. Also they hate ads with a passion. If anything, I…

The No True Scotsman fallacy strikes again.

Ask them for me, what is a "real" job? If anything, your children, as well as many others, are just exemplifying Effort Justification.

Why is suffering a requirement for something to be meritorious? While I agree that succeeding generations will be mostly fine, I also believe they will perpetuate much of the same regressive thinking as generations before them.

Also, please do not mistake my words. I do not believe LLMs are the be-all and end-all they are hyped up to be nor do I find them to be useless either. In a pragmatic sense, the entire purpose of programming is to provide a solution to a problem. Whatever else the human mind attributes to programming is merely fantasy that the ego ascribes to actions.

I say this all as someone that still mainly writes USDA certified organic code.

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#119

Post by hirvi74 »

bombcar wrote: post #90
ryanmcbride wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of these kids real work probably involves working with your hands. I don't think we need to get too upset over what people who have yet to enter the workforce have to say about "real work". They need to be employed for a few years before they learn the lesson that almost ALL work is fake work.

My definition of real work is - can I point at something and be proud of it? It might not even be something physical (but often is) and my involvement may not be obvious (say, managing the spreadsheets for a building project), but there it is, the thing I worked on.

That seems like more of test of self-esteem. I can work on something yet still not be proud of it, for example.

Re: The More Young People Use AI, the More They Hate It

#120

Post by bombcar »

hirvi74 wrote: post #119
bombcar wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My definition of real work is - can I point at something and be proud of it? It might not even be something physical (but often is) and my involvement may not be obvious (say, managing the spreadsheets for a building project), but there it is, the thing I worked on.

That seems like more of test of self-esteem. I can work on something yet still not be proud of it, for example.

Yes - but it’s part of it for me. Digging a giant hole would be real hard work, and something I can point at, but I might not be proud of it; it may have no point.
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