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He asked AI to count carbs 27000 times. It couldn't give the same answer twice

diabettech.com

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Re: He asked AI to count carbs 27000 times. It couldn't give the same answer twice

#111
LLMs seem really bad with reading numbers and reporting them back. I’m building a game, and to se how well its docs were being indexed, I tried asking simple questions to ChatGPT, Gemini, whatever Microsoft’s thing is, etc:

“What is the armour value for the Leather Shirt” in the game Stravaeger?”

It confidently got it wrong.

“You can find the game at https://stravaeger.com

Different confident answers, also wrong.

“You’ll find it in a table on this page: https://stravaeger.com/docs.html?inventory_item=LEATHER_SHIR...

Oh, sorry. I was inferring from other similar games. Here is a different confidently wrong number.

“It’s also in the .json file linked on that page”

And another wrong value. Random numbers should have got it right by now, but no. And the confident, authoritative tone never changed. Every model I tried was the same story.

Re: He asked AI to count carbs 27000 times. It couldn't give the same answer twice

#112
Also makes one question about task that we think AI can do. If the variance produced output is that large. What does it tells of failure rate in other tasks? Or reliability in general for uses cases?

In real world the acceptable failure rates in many cases are lot lower than we now accept. One in thousand could be too high if you process say thousand times. So in reality good enough error rate should be in one in million or lot rarer...

Re: He asked AI to count carbs 27000 times. It couldn't give the same answer twice

#113
post #88

"Crema catalana: Three of four models called it “creme brulee” 100% of the time. Only Gemini 3.1 Pro got “crema catalana” — in 3.4% of queries." ---- Wikipedia for Crema catalana: Crema catalana (Catalan for 'Catalan cream'), or crema cremada ('burnt cream'), is a Catalan dessert consisting of a custard topped with a layer of caramelized sugar.[1] It is "virtually identical"[2] to the French crème brûlée. It is made…

In high school my Spanish teacher told us that Crema Catalana was the Spanish name for Creme Brulee.

Re: He asked AI to count carbs 27000 times. It couldn't give the same answer twice

#114
post #42

With mass information you could infer much more from pictures. With some sort of standard cube in the picture as well as taking a picture at an angle that emphasizes all three dimensions you could also better estimate the relative volume. It’s tractable I think, but not from a pic alone.

Yes one could potentially increase accuracy greatly. One big problem would be occlusion. There is already a solution to this that would be very hard to beat (and one can choose to use or not use an LLM to assist): prepare food yourself and use the information provided by the manufacturer.

If you consider time at all what you suggest is hardly a solution. It is the most accurate, but even 50% accuracy at orders of magnitude faster to calculate would be more useful for the main use case which is losing weight.

However for diabetes accuracy is likely preferred and I’m not sure any computer vision would be palatable.

Re: He asked AI to count carbs 27000 times. It couldn't give the same answer twice

#115
post #46
post #6

It’s just an impossible problem. Photons don’t provide sufficient information to determine calories (at least not in any way they could practically be captured). Inside that sandwich could be drenched with olive oil or it could be hollow cheese with lettuce. It’s impossible to tell.

Then the correct answer is “I can’t tell.” Not “Here’s a random guess that I just pulled out of my ass.” LLMs have picked up the bad habit of trying to give an answer when no answer can be given from scientists, who overall don’t say “I don’t know” nearly as often as they should.

I tried asking LLMs about food before. They all say "I can't tell for certain, but this is an estimate based on the ingredients I can spot/infer/guess".

You need to write a specific prompt to avoid any warnings.

Of course a lot of people don't know what limitations LLMs have, so there's some value to a blog post about it, but it's not as black-and-white as the article might suggest with its graphs.

The prompt (documented here: https://www.diabettech.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Supple...) lists specific instructions and a specific output format that doesn't allow the LLM any room for explanation or warning in processable data (only in notes fields). In fact, the prompt explicitly tells the LLM to ignore visual inferencing for some statistics and to rely on a nutrition authority instead.

Even in that intentionally restricted format, the English language output uses words like "roughly" and "estimated" in the LLMs I've tested.

Sure, if you take the numeric values and plot them in graphs, you get wildly inconsistent results, but that research method intentionally restricts the usefulness and reliability of the LLMs being researched.

What's much more troubling is this line from the preprint:

> The open-source iAPS automated insulin delivery (AID) system now offers food analysis through APIs from OpenAI, Anthropic and Google [8]

The linked app does seem to have a disclaimer, though:

> "AI nutritional estimates are approximations only. Always consult with your healthcare provider for medical decisions. Verify nutritional information whenever possible. Use at your own risk."

Re: He asked AI to count carbs 27000 times. It couldn't give the same answer twice

#116

There's an incredibly serious lack of education with how LLMs & carb-counting works. This entire article would be better suited to astrology.com than hackernews. When I opened it up, I assumed the author would have at least attempted a calculation service, maybe even placed something like the size of the meal into an actual model, using the integration of pre-existing tools that are (slightly more) accurate. Hell - m…

There are apps in the app store right now that pretend to do this kind of thing, so having somebody actually show that it doesn't work is valuable, even if we already knew the outcome ahead of time.

Re: He asked AI to count carbs 27000 times. It couldn't give the same answer twice

#117
Another more general comment:

There general interest across a variety of disciplines to kick the tires of LLMs with respect to their competence in DOMAIN_X. This is good in general terms, but, especially with larger studies, they tend to be out-of-date by the time of publication, and super out-of-date by the time they hit the media circuit. Out-of-date here in terms of testing against models 1 or 2 or more generations back from SOTA.

The DOMAIN_X experts do have a lot to offer in terms of defining success criteria across domain tasks, but the studies (snapshots in time) could be much more impactful if they were instead packaged as benchmarks (that could track model progress over time, and even steer it).

AI community / industry could probably do some outreach work to streamline or standardize methods for general researchers to produce reusable benchmarks.

Re: He asked AI to count carbs 27000 times. It couldn't give the same answer twice

#118

There's an incredibly serious lack of education with how LLMs & carb-counting works. This entire article would be better suited to astrology.com than hackernews. When I opened it up, I assumed the author would have at least attempted a calculation service, maybe even placed something like the size of the meal into an actual model, using the integration of pre-existing tools that are (slightly more) accurate. Hell - m…

> But the author just took pictures of food & expected a realistic response? Is this genuinely what amounts to a study in AI?

Reminds me of that one youtube video (I forget who it is so I have no idea how to pull it up) where he turns on the camera on his phone for ChatGPT and asks it what everything it sees weighs, then puts it on a scale, and ChatGPT was never right, ever, which makes sense, I couldnt tell you what most things weigh on sight alone either, but ChatGPT often got it dramatically off. I got the feeling he thought it was terrible AI for this, but I don't think a model looking at an image of something and trying to guess its weight / calories / etc... is a reason to call an AI model bad...

Re: He asked AI to count carbs 27000 times. It couldn't give the same answer twice

#119
post #6

It’s just an impossible problem. Photons don’t provide sufficient information to determine calories (at least not in any way they could practically be captured). Inside that sandwich could be drenched with olive oil or it could be hollow cheese with lettuce. It’s impossible to tell.

The question isn't about calories, it's about carbs. Drenching that sandwhich in olive oil won't change its carb count. From the picture it's a thin cheese sandwich -- we can see cheese and we can see it's thin enough that there's little else. Might be no butter, might be lots of butter, but that won't affect carb count. If there's lettuce in the sandwhich there's likely a negligble amount. Hand it to a knowledgeable human and you're going to get a very consistent carb reading -- 30g, the value of two slices of wonder bread.

It could be much different -- it could one of those breads with weird macros, or fake cheese, or it could be hollowed out and packed full of hidden vegetables. But a human is going to give you the answer for two slices of plain white bread.

Re: He asked AI to count carbs 27000 times. It couldn't give the same answer twice

#120
I always love AI discussion. Using AI like they fucking sell it to us? You're doing it wrong!!LLMs can't do that!!

No shit sherlock, but the AI gurus are just telling people that this fucking parrot CAN DO EVERY FUCKING THING.

Why wouldn't an ordinary guy just ask these question to an AI when everybody is telling him that AI is intelligent enough to answer accurately?

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