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UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

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Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#111

Post by thrance »

amiga386 wrote: post #67
klodolph wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> guess how that turned out? My guess is that significantly fewer people use drugs than would have used drugs if they were not banned. > "The Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) estimated that 8.7% of people aged 16 to 59 years (around 2.9 million people) reported using any drug in the last 12 months for the year ending (YE) March 2025; there was no statistically significant change compared with YE March 2024"…

They're pointing out that 2.9 millon people take drugs (extrapolating from the people surveyed), and law says that should be zero. This law will attempt to ban cigarettes. Estimate how many people will buy them and smoke them illegally. The number will not be zero.

Yeah, murder is illegal too, but still the number of murders is non-zero. Maybe we should just legalize it?

Sarcasm aside, if the goal is to reduce consumption, criminalization does work. Repression, though, does come with its own can of worm (an euphemism, yes). It's up to the citizenry and its representatives to decide if the trade-off is worth it.

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#113

Post by theshrike79 »

allears wrote: post #3

I totally agree that tobacco is a harmful substance. I'm not sure if I agree that a government should try to legislate citizens' habits.

Americans want to legislate bathrooms.

You can still get addicted to nicotine, they're just banning a very specific delivery mechanism.

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#114

Post by intended »

tt24 wrote: post #109
intended wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this comment? Yes, society curtails behaviors? We wear helmets and seatbelts? Insurance is entirely about paying a small amount so that the costs of being on the wrong side of bad luck doesn’t pauper your citizenry. A single payer system wildly reduces the amount that has to be paid, while increasing service outcomes since now you can negotiate with drug companies. I would happily pay for that kind of system…

Close! Insurance is a transaction I consent to engaging in, but a single payer system is not that.

But… wait… what? Based on you what you say… why do you put money into an insurance system? It sounds like you want to make the most rational choice, but you are working off of a model of insurance that doesn’t make sense.

The maximally effective version, with the least cost, and greatest coverage is one that distributes costs across the largest pool of individuals. Which is a single payer system.

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#115

Post by joquarky »

pkulak wrote: post #18

Wow, lots of libertarian absolutists up this morning. Guys, that's all well and good as a philosophy, but you need to integrate your views into the world around you too. When you live in a society that has _decided_ to collectively shoulder health care costs, and assume responsibility for everyone's health, you also may need some ground rules. I know it sucks, because _you_ may have just been born there and you don't…

Have you seen Demolition Man (1993)?

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#116

Post by cineticdaffodil »

rorylawless wrote: post #8
cineticdaffodil wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its an attempt to cut back on health system costs, disguised as well meaning measure. Up next alcohol bans. One might not even numb oneself while beeing a slave to the "allways right" generation vampire.

Yes, the government has concocted a dastardly conspiracy to cut health system costs by reducing access to a known cause of illness.

If only we could impprison them all. Beeing in prison reduces almost all life risks, even that of incarceration.

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#117

Post by Mawr »

snapplebobapple wrote: post #88
threepts wrote: post #24

They also permanently banned coke,meth and other drugs since the inception of law, guess how that turned out? "The Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) estimated that 8.7% of people aged 16 to 59 years (around 2.9 million people) reported using any drug in the last 12 months for the year ending (YE) March 2025; there was no statistically significant change compared with YE March 2024" I believe limiting people's…

there is also a strong question as to whether smokers are actually a net cost to government or not. They draw decades less old age pension, have decades less medical visits, etc. I am extremely unconvinced that a large cancer related medical cost now has a higher net present value than a stream of government pension payouts, health costs, etc for decades ended with a large medical cost for some other reason. This is…

This gets easier to answer once you consider that, unlike an alcoholic, a smoker directly harms others around him, not just himself. And that's just on top of all the indirect damage.

And then, even as for strictly the damage he does to himself, cancer is far from the only risk.

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#118

Post by Mawr »

threepts wrote: post #24

They also permanently banned coke,meth and other drugs since the inception of law, guess how that turned out? "The Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) estimated that 8.7% of people aged 16 to 59 years (around 2.9 million people) reported using any drug in the last 12 months for the year ending (YE) March 2025; there was no statistically significant change compared with YE March 2024" I believe limiting people's…

> guess how that turned out?

Well, I don't hear colleagues at work saying they're going for a "meth break", so... pretty well, I'd say?

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#120

Post by ButlerianJihad »

Pooge wrote: post #104
ButlerianJihad wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://keepitsacred.itcmi.org/tobacco-and-tradition/traditi...

So my point stands; it's not a cultural symbol like alcohol is for Europeans.

Correct, and since the UK has an Established Church, and does not recognise “freedom of religion” as understood in the USA, banning tobacco entirely is reasonable.

Good luck, Canada.

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